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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: "Sanders military adviser briefed him once" [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)95. Where have you been?
Hillary Defends Her Failed War in Libya
Using contested intelligence, a powerful adviser urges a president to wage a war of choice against a dictator; makes a bellicose joke when he is killed; declares the operation a success; fails to plan for a power vacuum; and watches Islamists gain power. That describes Dick Cheney and the Iraq Warand Hillary Clinton and the war in Libya.
At Tuesdays primary debate, Clinton was criticized not just for the Iraq War vote that cost her the 2008 election, but also for the undeclared 2011 war that she urged in Libya. The Obama Administration waged that war of choice in violation of the War Powers Resolution and despite the official opposition of the U.S. Congress. Governor Webb has said that he would never have used military force in Libya and that the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was inevitable, Anderson Cooper told the former Secretary of State. Should you have seen that attack coming?
She then put a positive gloss on the wars outcome. I'll say this for the Libyan people she said. I think President Obama made the right decision at the time. And the Libyan people had a free election the first time since 1951. And you know what, they voted for moderates, they voted with the hope of democracy. Because of the Arab Spring, because of a lot of other things, there was turmoil to be followed.
That is about as misleading as summarizing the Iraq War by saying that the Iraqis had a terrible leader; they had a free election after the war; and they voted for moderates. It elides massive suffering and security threats that have occurred in postwar Libya.
Clinton is hardly alone in bearing blame for Libya. But she was among the biggest champions of the intervention. As one of her closest advisors once put it in an email, HRC has been a critical voice on Libya in administration deliberations, at NATO, and in contact group meetingsas well as the public face of the U.S. effort in Libya. She was instrumental in securing the authorization, building the coalition, and tightening the noose around Qadhafi and his regime. She stands behind her course of action even today. More than that, she calls it smart power at its best!
As a result, Democrats ought to conclude that she hasnt learned enough from her decision to support the Iraq War, and that a Clinton administration would likely pursue more wars of choice with poor judgment and insufficient planning. It is difficult to imagine a more consequential leadership flaw. And yet, the issue remains an afterthought in the campaign, even as multiple Clinton rivals criticize her hawkishness and pledge to be more wary of involving America in wars of choice. Neoconservatives could hardly orchestrate a Democratic primary more to their liking.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/hillary-clinton-debate-libya/410437/
Using contested intelligence, a powerful adviser urges a president to wage a war of choice against a dictator; makes a bellicose joke when he is killed; declares the operation a success; fails to plan for a power vacuum; and watches Islamists gain power. That describes Dick Cheney and the Iraq Warand Hillary Clinton and the war in Libya.
At Tuesdays primary debate, Clinton was criticized not just for the Iraq War vote that cost her the 2008 election, but also for the undeclared 2011 war that she urged in Libya. The Obama Administration waged that war of choice in violation of the War Powers Resolution and despite the official opposition of the U.S. Congress. Governor Webb has said that he would never have used military force in Libya and that the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was inevitable, Anderson Cooper told the former Secretary of State. Should you have seen that attack coming?
She then put a positive gloss on the wars outcome. I'll say this for the Libyan people she said. I think President Obama made the right decision at the time. And the Libyan people had a free election the first time since 1951. And you know what, they voted for moderates, they voted with the hope of democracy. Because of the Arab Spring, because of a lot of other things, there was turmoil to be followed.
That is about as misleading as summarizing the Iraq War by saying that the Iraqis had a terrible leader; they had a free election after the war; and they voted for moderates. It elides massive suffering and security threats that have occurred in postwar Libya.
Clinton is hardly alone in bearing blame for Libya. But she was among the biggest champions of the intervention. As one of her closest advisors once put it in an email, HRC has been a critical voice on Libya in administration deliberations, at NATO, and in contact group meetingsas well as the public face of the U.S. effort in Libya. She was instrumental in securing the authorization, building the coalition, and tightening the noose around Qadhafi and his regime. She stands behind her course of action even today. More than that, she calls it smart power at its best!
As a result, Democrats ought to conclude that she hasnt learned enough from her decision to support the Iraq War, and that a Clinton administration would likely pursue more wars of choice with poor judgment and insufficient planning. It is difficult to imagine a more consequential leadership flaw. And yet, the issue remains an afterthought in the campaign, even as multiple Clinton rivals criticize her hawkishness and pledge to be more wary of involving America in wars of choice. Neoconservatives could hardly orchestrate a Democratic primary more to their liking.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/hillary-clinton-debate-libya/410437/
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Well, that's not true, but good of you to reveal your bias so early in the game. nt
MADem
Feb 2016
#11
No, it's that he isn't informed enough or interested enough in foreign policy
BainsBane
Feb 2016
#14
Well he already knew far more than she did when she helped get us into Iraq:
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#38
Being that you have to pull out strawmen to support your choice I take it you're okay with her vote.
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#76
Strawman: "Being that this is the be-all and end-all on foreign policy and nothing else matters"
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#80
A mere mention of a list of countries does not indicate she did anything wrong on any of those
treestar
Feb 2016
#91
This is the second time in as many days I've seen a Hillary supporter defend Kissinger.
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#106
Well at least the op gave us a chance to prove once again why Hillary isn't qualified to be CiC.
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#111
Sanders has been in Congress since 1992, and his votes including his vote on the Iraq War
JDPriestly
Feb 2016
#3
Hillary needs to stop speaking to whoever is advising her on military and foreign matters.
merrily
Feb 2016
#10
Emails expose close ties between Hillary Clinton and accused war criminal Henry Kissinger
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#78
Emails expose close ties between Hillary Clinton and accused war criminal Henry Kissinger
polly7
Feb 2016
#87
No, not astute. A warmongering, murder/torturing supporter asshole isn't capable of 'astuteness'
polly7
Feb 2016
#94
Neither have Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al. Would they be suitable advisers now too?
polly7
Feb 2016
#88
That's your defense of a war criminal? Bush and Cheney weren't tried and convicted either.
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#89
You're just now learning of Kissinger's complicity and you've already absolved him?
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#105
The kind that would tell him a sectarian proxy war in the Middle East is a bad idea
Renew Deal
Feb 2016
#50
Yep, the soap opera actress/blogger she cited lied about Bernie and the op is trying to save face.
beam me up scottie
Feb 2016
#33
"Sanders military adviser briefed him once" OMG what a joke! Is Bernie a serious candidate???
workinclasszero
Feb 2016
#58
You'd think he'd change strategy when he realized how weak he is on foreign policy issues. But no.
BlueCaliDem
Feb 2016
#69
You mean he isn't going to repeat Bush's lies word for word, and trick us into war?
arcane1
Feb 2016
#63
Good. Hillary probably talks to military advisors several times throughout the day.
frylock
Feb 2016
#64
In these dangerous times, the LAST thing we need is a foreign policy light-weight in the White House
BlueCaliDem
Feb 2016
#65
What can we deduce? Is this a clue that he might be somewhat of an "isolationist"? Who knows?
NurseJackie
Feb 2016
#71
Who exactly do you believe is threatening the U.S. militarily and what should be done about it? nt.
polly7
Feb 2016
#72
Sanders has not put out his Foreign policy proposal --so we and voters have
riversedge
Feb 2016
#115
True, so is the choice between: a "well briefed" politician who has chosen the wrong actions
guillaumeb
Feb 2016
#116
What would be a question Bernie might have, that requires consultation with a military adviser?
immoderate
Feb 2016
#114