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In reply to the discussion: On Reconciling Atheism and Meaning in the Universe [View all]eqfan592
(5,963 posts)38. From talk origins:
"The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance."
There is probably no other statement which is a better indication that the arguer doesn't understand evolution. Chance certainly plays a large part in evolution, but this argument completely ignores the fundamental role of natural selection, and selection is the very opposite of chance. Chance, in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the raw material that natural selection has to work with. From there, natural selection sorts out certain variations. Those variations which give greater reproductive success to their possessors (and chance ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable) are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. When the environment changes, or when organisms move to a different environment, different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Harmful mutations usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating....
There is probably no other statement which is a better indication that the arguer doesn't understand evolution. Chance certainly plays a large part in evolution, but this argument completely ignores the fundamental role of natural selection, and selection is the very opposite of chance. Chance, in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the raw material that natural selection has to work with. From there, natural selection sorts out certain variations. Those variations which give greater reproductive success to their possessors (and chance ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable) are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. When the environment changes, or when organisms move to a different environment, different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Harmful mutations usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating....
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
From Berkeley:
MISCONCEPTION: Evolutionary theory implies that life evolved (and continues to evolve) randomly, or by chance.
CORRECTION: Chance and randomness do factor into evolution and the history of life in many different ways; however, some important mechanisms of evolution are non-random and these make the overall process non-random. For example, consider the process of natural selection, which results in adaptations features of organisms that appear to suit the environment in which the organisms live (e.g., the fit between a flower and its pollinator, the coordinated response of the immune system to pathogens, and the ability of bats to echolocate). Such amazing adaptations clearly did not come about "by chance." They evolved via a combination of random and non-random processes. The process of mutation, which generates genetic variation, is random, but selection is non-random. Selection favored variants that were better able to survive and reproduce (e.g., to be pollinated, to fend off pathogens, or to navigate in the dark). Over many generations of random mutation and non-random selection, complex adaptations evolved. To say that evolution happens "by chance" ignores half of the picture. To learn more about the process of natural selection, visit our article on this topic. To learn more about random mutation, visit our article on DNA and mutations.
CORRECTION: Chance and randomness do factor into evolution and the history of life in many different ways; however, some important mechanisms of evolution are non-random and these make the overall process non-random. For example, consider the process of natural selection, which results in adaptations features of organisms that appear to suit the environment in which the organisms live (e.g., the fit between a flower and its pollinator, the coordinated response of the immune system to pathogens, and the ability of bats to echolocate). Such amazing adaptations clearly did not come about "by chance." They evolved via a combination of random and non-random processes. The process of mutation, which generates genetic variation, is random, but selection is non-random. Selection favored variants that were better able to survive and reproduce (e.g., to be pollinated, to fend off pathogens, or to navigate in the dark). Over many generations of random mutation and non-random selection, complex adaptations evolved. To say that evolution happens "by chance" ignores half of the picture. To learn more about the process of natural selection, visit our article on this topic. To learn more about random mutation, visit our article on DNA and mutations.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#a2
From biologist Richard Dawkins:
You said in a recent speech that design was not the only alternative to chance. A lot of people think that evolution is all about random chance.
That's ludicrous. That's ridiculous. Mutation is random in the sense that it's not anticipatory of what's needed. Natural selection is anything but random. Natural selection is a guided process, guided not by any higher power, but simply by which genes survive and which genes don't survive. That's a non-random process. The animals that are best at whatever they do-hunting, flying, fishing, swimming, digging-whatever the species does, the individuals that are best at it are the ones that pass on the genes. It's because of this non-random process that lions are so good at hunting, antelopes so good at running away from lions, and fish are so good at swimming.
That's ludicrous. That's ridiculous. Mutation is random in the sense that it's not anticipatory of what's needed. Natural selection is anything but random. Natural selection is a guided process, guided not by any higher power, but simply by which genes survive and which genes don't survive. That's a non-random process. The animals that are best at whatever they do-hunting, flying, fishing, swimming, digging-whatever the species does, the individuals that are best at it are the ones that pass on the genes. It's because of this non-random process that lions are so good at hunting, antelopes so good at running away from lions, and fish are so good at swimming.
http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2005/11/The-Problem-With-God-Interview-With-Richard-Dawkins.aspx
Need I go on?
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"...he writes about his hunger for meaning...." We put meaning in the universe...
GodlessBiker
Aug 2012
#1
No. It's simply an attribute of consciousness to create meaning in the world.
GodlessBiker
Aug 2012
#20
But an instinct isn't equivalent to meaning. It's just another background fact which helps create..
GodlessBiker
Aug 2012
#44
We have quite a lot of evidence that we are only nibbling at the edges of how many stars and
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2012
#75
Well, since you're the one claiming waves don't exist unless someone measures them, this is overdue.
rug
Aug 2012
#85
I wasn't personifying nature, simply using vocabulary that is easy to understand.
cleanhippie
Aug 2012
#17
Not exactly sure how you could have possibly gotten that from what he wote... (nt)
eqfan592
Aug 2012
#33
"Are Random Drift and Natural Selection Conceptually Distinct?" - thanks for ...
Jim__
Aug 2012
#114
They're using fucked-up semantics - The word "random" has several different meanings.
bananas
Aug 2012
#125
"directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment"
FiveGoodMen
Aug 2012
#42
More like atheists don't require the crutch of imaginary imposed meaning by others upon the universe
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2012
#55
I believe that if you transcribed everything about my brain onto a mechanical device
AtheistCrusader
Aug 2012
#57
I don't know whether reincarnation into computers is possible, I'm making an educated guess it's not
cpwm17
Aug 2012
#102
I think I just saw the structure of the universe in the last topic I saw...
Spitfire of ATJ
Aug 2012
#83