Religion

rug

(82,333 posts)

29. There is a tension between organization and entropy.

Reply to longship (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 30, 2012, 08:01 AM

Aug 2012

I don't see a reason why one would prevail over the other, even though it does.

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On Reconciling Atheism and Meaning in the Universe [View all] rug Aug 2012 OP

"...he writes about his hunger for meaning...." We put meaning in the universe... GodlessBiker Aug 2012 #1

Do you consider meaning to be subjective? rug Aug 2012 #3

It's subjective in that it is created by the subject. GodlessBiker Aug 2012 #6

Therefore, there is nothing that exists that has objective meaning? rug Aug 2012 #10

Meaning which exists outside of consciousness? No. GodlessBiker Aug 2012 #15

I think we're headed into falling tree sound territory. rug Aug 2012 #18

No. It's simply an attribute of consciousness to create meaning in the world. GodlessBiker Aug 2012 #20

Ok, but that is different from meaning being subjective. rug Aug 2012 #22

But an instinct isn't equivalent to meaning. It's just another background fact which helps create.. GodlessBiker Aug 2012 #44

The corrollary of that statement is that there are no shared values. rug Aug 2012 #69

The corrollary of that statement is that there are no shared values. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #92

Do you realize you're disagreeing with him? rug Aug 2012 #107

I'm perfectly happy with it all being meaningless. alfredo Aug 2012 #49

If it was vibrating, we could objectively measure it. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #54

Not if neither you nor your equipment is there. rug Aug 2012 #65

If it has never been measured AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #71

A galaxy, yet undiscovered, does not exist now by that standard. rug Aug 2012 #74

We have quite a lot of evidence that we are only nibbling at the edges of how many stars and AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #75

You didn't answer. rug Aug 2012 #77

particles may resonate and have frequency. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #78

Have you now become a WaveistCrusader? rug Aug 2012 #80

I see. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #82

Well, since you're the one claiming waves don't exist unless someone measures them, this is overdue. rug Aug 2012 #85

And of course, that isn't what I said at all. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #97

I am picking up smething you're giving off. rug Aug 2012 #105

You never answered post 75. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #110

I did. Apparently you reject wave physics as evidence. rug Aug 2012 #111

Reviewing the thread I may have read something into post 18 AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #118

Here is his description of his God cbayer Aug 2012 #2

This is where he puts himself on the atheist spectrum. rug Aug 2012 #4

Interesting take and it resonates with me. cbayer Aug 2012 #5

It frustrating when people use words like "random formation"... cleanhippie Aug 2012 #8

If not random, is it deliberate? rug Aug 2012 #11

Mutations are random, but nature selects only those that are fit enough. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #12

Well, personifying nature is dangerous. rug Aug 2012 #14

I wasn't personifying nature, simply using vocabulary that is easy to understand. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #17

Natural selection is simply LTX Aug 2012 #32

Not exactly sure how you could have possibly gotten that from what he wote... (nt) eqfan592 Aug 2012 #33

Well, then I'm not sure what he meant by LTX Aug 2012 #34

From PBS: eqfan592 Aug 2012 #35

Well gee. I guess if its PBS . . . LTX Aug 2012 #37

From talk origins: eqfan592 Aug 2012 #38

Actually, yes. LTX Aug 2012 #40

Sorry, but I'm in no mood to teach a biology lesson. eqfan592 Aug 2012 #43

Really? LTX Aug 2012 #47

I said you were in need of further study on the subject. eqfan592 Aug 2012 #52

No, you said nothing of the kind. LTX Aug 2012 #58

You do understand people can just scroll up and read previous posts, right? eqfan592 Aug 2012 #59

Yes, people can scroll up and read previous posts. LTX Aug 2012 #61

"Are Random Drift and Natural Selection Conceptually Distinct?" - thanks for ... Jim__ Aug 2012 #114

Oh, and by the way, LTX Aug 2012 #70

Listen, as I said earlier... eqfan592 Aug 2012 #89

I applaud your efforts and appreciate your assistance. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #99

What I am saying is not the product of "willful ignorance." LTX Aug 2012 #112

Honest question here. eqfan592 Aug 2012 #113

The short answer is yes. Prof. Mayr's LTX Aug 2012 #117

They're using fucked-up semantics - The word "random" has several different meanings. bananas Aug 2012 #125

Huh??? eqfan592 Aug 2012 #128

"they're using it in the way creationists like to use it" - exactly. bananas Aug 2012 #129

"directly related to the ways its inherited traits function in the context of its local environment" FiveGoodMen Aug 2012 #42

Whoa there. LTX Aug 2012 #48

I said that environmental changes are deterministic. FiveGoodMen Aug 2012 #50

Actually, there's a difference. LTX Aug 2012 #51

I'll leave you to your own private dictionary FiveGoodMen Aug 2012 #53

It's a common dictionary. LTX Aug 2012 #60

rofl - that's as bad as creationism! bananas Aug 2012 #124

I'm unsure about exactly what it is you find so humorous. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #126

Maybe it's a semantic problem - see my post #129. nt bananas Aug 2012 #130

Interesting take, but a bit of a straw man. longship Aug 2012 #28

There is a tension between organization and entropy. rug Aug 2012 #29

Yes, good point! longship Aug 2012 #30

There is a tension between organization and entropy. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #94

Chaos > Entropy > Organization? rug Aug 2012 #108

Go read a book on Chaos theory AlbertCat Aug 2012 #115

I have. rug Aug 2012 #121

There are gross "rules" that can be used LTX Aug 2012 #36

Indeed true. longship Aug 2012 #41

If people are going to pontificate about the meaning of anything intaglio Aug 2012 #7

Do you prefer "pointless"? rug Aug 2012 #9

I might have done if I hadn't been caught up in the uses of meaning intaglio Aug 2012 #24

What is the meaning of the first Tuesday in November? rug Aug 2012 #27

No I am just saying that the question is void intaglio Aug 2012 #45

You can allay your suspicions simply by answering the question. rug Aug 2012 #68

The November question? intaglio Aug 2012 #100

Speaking of verbal diarrhea, you should have stopped after the first sentence. rug Aug 2012 #104

Not an answer, just more evasion intaglio Aug 2012 #122

It's your framework. Do you see meaning in tthe election. rug Aug 2012 #127

But we were dealing with a far more complex subject intaglio Aug 2012 #131

You are, in essence, asserting nihilism. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #95

"We, humans, DO care, and should, because we live in our human world" rug Aug 2012 #106

I just told you why. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #116

No you didn't. rug Aug 2012 #120

Atheism doesn't require meaning at all. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #13

Hmmm, atheism is meaningless. rug Aug 2012 #16

No, you shouldn't. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #19

Everything is meaningless, in an objective sense. mr blur Aug 2012 #25

That's not true. Is a life meaningless? rug Aug 2012 #26

It only has the meaning that one chooses to give it. cleanhippie Aug 2012 #31

Ask your mother. rug Aug 2012 #39

Perhaps to those that are aware of us, individually. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #56

Does a child blown to bits in Kabul have meaning to you? rug Aug 2012 #62

The ones I've been able to find out about, yes. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #66

But not the dead unknown to you? rug Aug 2012 #67

As soon as they become known AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #72

I'm not nearly that solipsistic. rug Aug 2012 #73

You just abused that term. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #76

Is your opposition to war the result of your subjective view? rug Aug 2012 #79

Absolutely. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #81

You are confusing agreement with subjective knowledge. rug Aug 2012 #86

You are confusing agreement with subjective knowledge. AlbertCat Aug 2012 #96

Am I? AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #119

Well if you believe that, then religion is meaningless intaglio Aug 2012 #46

No equivalence at all. rug Aug 2012 #63

OK so tell us what these meanings and purposes are. intaglio Aug 2012 #101

The phrase "verbal diarrhea" is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt. rug Aug 2012 #103

Odd, you accept the objectionable phrase as applying to yourself intaglio Aug 2012 #123

More like atheists don't require the crutch of imaginary imposed meaning by others upon the universe AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #55

Well, if it's all in your own head, so be it. rug Aug 2012 #64

Interesting interview. It leads me to 2 main thoughts. Jim__ Aug 2012 #21

That could only work for a limited amount of time, even if it could be done. rug Aug 2012 #23

I believe that if you transcribed everything about my brain onto a mechanical device AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #57

It appears that you think reincarnation is possible - minus the soul cpwm17 Aug 2012 #88

I am not aware of anything one might describe as a 'soul'. AtheistCrusader Aug 2012 #98

I agree with everything you wrote cpwm17 Aug 2012 #109

It seems far-fetched that computers could ever become conscious cpwm17 Aug 2012 #87

We don't know whether or not it is far-fetched. Jim__ Aug 2012 #90

I don't know whether reincarnation into computers is possible, I'm making an educated guess it's not cpwm17 Aug 2012 #102

I think I just saw the structure of the universe in the last topic I saw... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2012 #83

Lol, good for Sammy. rug Aug 2012 #84

oh sure Kali Aug 2012 #91

Oh we're nothing if not classy in here. rug Aug 2012 #93