Religion

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

160. Yes it does attract outraged hysterical types. You would be a part of that, no?

Reply to amuse bouche (Reply #152)

Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:15 PM

Aug 2014

So what do you do in the medical field exactly?

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Richard Dawkins: ‘It Would Be Immoral’ to Give Birth to A Child with Down’s Syndrome [View all] rug Aug 2014 OP

He just doesn't get that it's not what he says, but... TreasonousBastard Aug 2014 #1

Hyperbole right out of the gate! Impressive. JNelson6563 Aug 2014 #27

Sure, but doesn't the subject lend itself... TreasonousBastard Aug 2014 #32

Maybe not demanding, but calling those who would make a personal choice to not cbayer Aug 2014 #35

but calling those who would make a personal choice...immoral is much worse. AlbertCat Aug 2014 #89

Again, a vacant statement. But this time it gets the rolly eyes for extra added credit!! cbayer Aug 2014 #103

Clearly, he calls the choice to carry the fetus to term "immoral." Maedhros Aug 2014 #81

That's what I would do. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #31

It's what you would do? cbayer Aug 2014 #36

If I were female, pregnant, and that test came back with those results. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #39

Sorry, but you will never be a pregnant female and you can not even begin cbayer Aug 2014 #52

Disagree.* AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #56

Of course you disagree. That is what happens when you are blinded by privilege, cbayer Aug 2014 #59

"This is a conscious decision" AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #61

Of course you do, but you will never make the decision to have an abortion cbayer Aug 2014 #62

Again, I didn't judge anyone. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #63

I tend to be very reluctant to give advice. cbayer Aug 2014 #65

As a male, that's as close to implantation as I can get. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #72

Yes, it is as close as you will ever get, cbayer Aug 2014 #73

Just a note of thanks... haikugal Aug 2014 #86

Right, Dawkins decrees what is moral and what is not Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #111

Interesting objection you have here Lordquinton Aug 2014 #120

I am saying nothing about the morality of aborting a Downs fetus Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #180

The problem is not with people like you that would abort such a fetus, cbayer Aug 2014 #114

He uses Dorian Gray Aug 2014 #208

Sperm donor? kdmorris Aug 2014 #110

Oh, I am sure I could be much more insulting. cbayer Aug 2014 #112

I've certainly heard it in the context of abortion kdmorris Aug 2014 #116

Well, you know what some people say about insults, don't you? cbayer Aug 2014 #117

So "Next great meme" (to use Dawkin's term, nice one) Lordquinton Aug 2014 #121

No. The next great meme will be that I consider men to be nothing more than cbayer Aug 2014 #122

like I said about you misusing Richard Dawkins term Lordquinton Aug 2014 #123

Misusing it? I'm not misusing it at all. cbayer Aug 2014 #137

A meme is an idea that permeates through the culture Lordquinton Aug 2014 #203

I know what a meme is. cbayer Aug 2014 #205

Of course you disagree. That is what happens when you are blinded by privilege, AlbertCat Aug 2014 #91

Again with the rolly eyes? And again, I have to ask for clarification. cbayer Aug 2014 #104

Well stated, cbayer. Chemisse Aug 2014 #202

Hello, Chemisse! cbayer Aug 2014 #204

Demanding they abort it, AlbertCat Aug 2014 #88

A bit of hyperbole, as already noted, but... TreasonousBastard Aug 2014 #92

"abort it and try again" is not solid advice AlbertCat Aug 2014 #93

Find a woman, or a couple, with the problem... TreasonousBastard Aug 2014 #94

Then get back to us with their response. AlbertCat Aug 2014 #98

Using the imperative mood may well be interpreted as a demand. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #148

Let's see.... (also the imperative mood.... but not a demand, obviously) AlbertCat Aug 2014 #159

I commented on the fact that he used the imperative. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #167

Still ignoring he was asked for advice I see. AlbertCat Aug 2014 #170

Not at all. In fact that is the whole point. Thanks for reminding us. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #182

If I saw 1/10 of the outrage by those of you obsessed with Dawkins Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #2

Do you have an opinion on his statement beyond tu quoque? rug Aug 2014 #3

It doesn't bother me. Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #6

He is injecting "morality" into the right to choose. rug Aug 2014 #7

I'll consider what Dawkins has to say about morality Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #12

My mileage does indeed vary. rug Aug 2014 #13

The Pope is directly relevant; the Catholic Church is a major voice in antiabortionism Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #19

Bullshit. Read the OP again. rug Aug 2014 #22

Dawkins speaks of abortion, and specifically "choice." Catholicism is the major anti-choice voice. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #106

I haven't seen such contortions since freak shows were banned. rug Aug 2014 #107

No, Dawkins is giving a pronouncement "This is moral" Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #113

No. I don't say ALL moral judgements are wrong. I just say the churches' ideas are mostly wrong. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #125

Oh, I see Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #179

I believe that religion has not made a convincing case in ethics, vs. reason-based systems Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #195

In other words, I called it correctly Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2014 #207

No. I follow evidence, not people. Science, not strong-arming individuals. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #210

Your Pope and your church ALSO inject "morality" into the opposition of choice. cleanhippie Aug 2014 #23

Yeah, but Dawkins is saying that all atheists need to do as he says. Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #24

+1 cleanhippie Aug 2014 #25

That makes his statement so much less obnoxious. rug Aug 2014 #29

No, he's telling women what to do. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #71

Where does he say he is telling women what to do? Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #74

If the quote is accurate, he used the imperative. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #75

Apparently your definition of 'morality' haikugal Aug 2014 #87

Where did I define "morality"? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #105

Which has what to do with the OP? rug Aug 2014 #28

Yep. MellowDem Aug 2014 #4

Care to elaborate? rug Aug 2014 #8

Dawkins is a biologist... MellowDem Aug 2014 #84

When he is making a social pronouncement based on his morality, he's fair game. rug Aug 2014 #109

He's always fair game... MellowDem Aug 2014 #124

"12. Wait 90 days and repeat." rug Aug 2014 #129

What does this have to do with the Pope? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #16

It's low grade deflection. rug Aug 2014 #30

pointing out the faux outrage when Dawkins says something akward Lordquinton Aug 2014 #136

Except we have threads that discuss the Pope Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #143

Well, the OP was about something Dawkins said that caused a sensation... TreasonousBastard Aug 2014 #33

Well, he seems to be to rug. mr blur Aug 2014 #37

As usual, what seems to be true to you is blurred. rug Aug 2014 #40

Very feeble response, even for you. mr blur Aug 2014 #115

That's all it required. rug Aug 2014 #118

I am the father of a special needs child. Maedhros Aug 2014 #82

Doesn't seem newsworthy... MellowDem Aug 2014 #5

It's odd that only you and goblinmonger mention a Pope? rug Aug 2014 #9

Something relating to religion... MellowDem Aug 2014 #83

I wouldn't say it's immoral, but it doesn't make a lot of sense LuvNewcastle Aug 2014 #10

You tell the reality of it well. rug Aug 2014 #11

You're right. It's wrong to judge people over something like that. LuvNewcastle Aug 2014 #14

Oh. My. God. cbayer Aug 2014 #15

Ms. cbayer is a medical professional pretending to be shocked at say, an optional D & C? Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #18

Meaning that the other 10% are immoral, of course. stone space Aug 2014 #20

Most suggest this should be a "choice" made by the woman herself. And no one else. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #21

Of course. And most of us would go even further... stone space Aug 2014 #26

Is Dawkin's position that 1) not aborting deformed fetuses IS immoral in HIS opinion; 2) but ... Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #66

Sad! Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #17

That is apparently Dawkin's opinion. MineralMan Aug 2014 #34

What is the morality he invokes? rug Aug 2014 #38

You would need to address your question to Dawkins. MineralMan Aug 2014 #41

You'll have to do. rug Aug 2014 #43

On the question of abortion of Down Syndrome Fetuses? MineralMan Aug 2014 #45

No, on the morality that he is invoking. rug Aug 2014 #46

I have no opinion about Dawkins' morality. MineralMan Aug 2014 #49

Your ethical amalgam is mildly interesting but the topic is Dawkins'. rug Aug 2014 #50

And I told you what I think and that I cannot speak for him. MineralMan Aug 2014 #54

I fully grasp your incompetence on that subject. rug Aug 2014 #55

I made my personal ethic regarding reproductive choice MineralMan Aug 2014 #57

Do you not think that one can create one's own morality? Goblinmonger Aug 2014 #42

As a matter of fact, I think it happens all the time. But that was not the question. rug Aug 2014 #44

Again, you are asking someone about someone else's MineralMan Aug 2014 #47

Well, since he tweeted his morality to the world at large, that really is a non-answer. rug Aug 2014 #48

Actually, he tweeted his opinion about a single issue. MineralMan Aug 2014 #51

I agree with that. He reached into whatever bag of morality he has to address that issue. rug Aug 2014 #53

As do we all, do we not? tkmorris Aug 2014 #60

Naturally. And when we do, it's open for discussion. rug Aug 2014 #67

What would Hitler do? rock Aug 2014 #58

Well, now that you mention it . . . . rug Aug 2014 #68

Well, I was just making a joke rock Aug 2014 #70

What God did: slaughters all men, women, children, fetuses, that are not God's chosen Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #76

Do you find Dawkins' tweet more similar to that quote or to RCC doctrine? rug Aug 2014 #108

Closer to actual historical Catholic practice, and older versions of its doctrine. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #126

With your scholarly expertise, link to earlier RCC doctrine on infanticide. rug Aug 2014 #128

The church I was born into allowed abortion. Its doctrine was that the embryo was NOT an "infant." Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #130

His dispute was primarily with the Church in Carthage. Augustine did also a century later. rug Aug 2014 #131

Nor has it ever been consistent or clear on what is an "infant" vs. an embryo Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #133

We now agree it condemned infanticide. rug Aug 2014 #134

The Church today whitewashes the fact that Tertullian left the Church; and was never reliable Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #138

By your last sentence, I take it you are acknowledging the existence of a soul. rug Aug 2014 #191

I read "soul" as basically a primitive early word for, more or less, a human "mind" or consciousness Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #196

I would have chosen the word "irresponsible" rather than "immoral" but only because... Humanist_Activist Aug 2014 #64

Good luck. I hope you don't have to make that choice. rug Aug 2014 #69

That's a tough decision Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #77

Its always a quality of life issue for me, I want my potential future child... Humanist_Activist Aug 2014 #79

Do you really want to go there? YarnAddict Aug 2014 #80

Downs Syndrome isn't just a cognitive disability. There are physical issues as well Heddi Aug 2014 #85

There are no guarantees in life YarnAddict Aug 2014 #90

Hell yes I want to go there, and your comparisons are fucking atrocious and offensive. Humanist_Activist Aug 2014 #95

Disgusting comment and sentiment. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #78

Why is the sentiment and comment disgusting? n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2014 #96

It says these childrens lives have no meaning. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #97

What meaning would there be to create a life that suffers? Humanist_Activist Aug 2014 #99

Everyone's morality is a bit different. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #100

It's all about personal choice amuse bouche Aug 2014 #101

placenta shake is very good for you. Wonder if that was wasted as well? terdheadur Aug 2014 #102

"placenta shake is very good for you" No proof of that amuse bouche Aug 2014 #119

yeah I've seen five. terdheadur Aug 2014 #132

" just hate seeing good things go to waste" amuse bouche Aug 2014 #144

Well, he pissed off Sarah Palin, so that's a 'win' in my book. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #127

Really? As much as we collectively despise Sarah Palin, she cbayer Aug 2014 #139

She used that child as a prop. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #140

I agree that that is what she did and I am not defending her. cbayer Aug 2014 #141

I agree that it is petty and unflattering. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #142

I babysat for a boy with Down's syndrome. AndreaCG Aug 2014 #135

What happens when that child is 30 and functions the same as he did when 7? amuse bouche Aug 2014 #145

Whoa! Have you spent any time at all with people with Downs and the people who love them? cbayer Aug 2014 #146

I've spent more that 25 years in the medical field and have seen plenty of people dumping amuse bouche Aug 2014 #149

What do you do in the medical field, if you don't mind me asking? cbayer Aug 2014 #150

"It outraged me to the point that I really crossed my own line in terms of being civil. " amuse bouche Aug 2014 #152

Yes it does attract outraged hysterical types. You would be a part of that, no? cbayer Aug 2014 #160

"I hope that no one alerts on this, because it should stand for anyone who happens by to see." amuse bouche Aug 2014 #154

If you stand by that post, there is nothing else to be said. cbayer Aug 2014 #163

My guess is medical billing. rug Aug 2014 #192

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with actual patient care. cbayer Aug 2014 #193

Resentment of what will set in? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #147

Mengele? Can we keep the hyperbole to a dull roar? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #151

"Mengele? Can we keep the hyperbole to a dull roar?" amuse bouche Aug 2014 #153

"They"? Is that the same as "you people"? cbayer Aug 2014 #165

"They"? Is that the same as "you people"? amuse bouche Aug 2014 #181

I'm not referring to a woman choosing to abort any fetus. That is her choice. Trisomy 21 or not Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #155

"a poster who is concerned about "cuddliness" and "resentment" amuse bouche Aug 2014 #156

I didn't see any reference to "clients" or "patients" Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #162

Do you have clients or do you have patients? cbayer Aug 2014 #166

" Do you have clients or do you have patients?" amuse bouche Aug 2014 #171

You brought up your extensive medical experience on which you cbayer Aug 2014 #174

"I could guess what that is all about, but I think I will just leave it alone" amuse bouche Aug 2014 #177

He was speaking to a reason WHY someone might make that choice. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #157

She .... and yes, thankfully you have comprehension skills, amuse bouche Aug 2014 #158

I said he was sounding more like Mengele with every pronouncement. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #184

And? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #185

Please tell me what you think of that post by amuse bouche. cbayer Aug 2014 #164

I agree with the 1:6 jury outcome. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #175

Jury results SecularMotion Aug 2014 #168

Just to add: I was Juror 2, and I am nevertheless horrified beyond belief at the Mengele comparison! LeftishBrit Aug 2014 #169

Why were you horrified beyond belief? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #183

Not that anyone would do this, but let's construct a hypothetical. To examine morality. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #186

Deciding to bring a fetus to term cannot be immoral in any circumstances, imo Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #187

Im not talking about the choice to bring it to term. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #188

I think any "gaming" of the system has potential moral implications. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #189

Have to take off for the day, but just one quick item AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #190

He has the right to his opinion but I still think it is too harsh. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #161

"What maybe the right decision for some may not be for others." amuse bouche Aug 2014 #172

I don't think it is hard to comprehend but I think peopke take issue with his calling it immoral hrmjustin Aug 2014 #173

He's not wrong. It's one point of view amuse bouche Aug 2014 #176

He is not wrong to you. Others have other ideas on it. hrmjustin Aug 2014 #178

And that's a choice he called immoral. rug Aug 2014 #194

Rug, of Democratic Underground, just called Dawkins "an ass." Next? He repeats it. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #197

Lol, watch the video. rug Aug 2014 #198

Not the least bit funny or forgivable either. Brettongarcia Aug 2014 #199

It may just be yours. rug Aug 2014 #200

Good thing it's still her choice. Iris Aug 2014 #201

It does make one wonder whether it would be her choice cbayer Aug 2014 #206

yep. Iris Aug 2014 #209