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Religion

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AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
Wed Aug 20, 2014, 01:58 PM Aug 2014

Susan Blackmore has an unexpected lecture experience at Oxford Royale Academy [View all]

I think her observations are relevant to some issues that have been going on in this forum of late.

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/a-hundred-walked-out-of-my-lecture/

"Then I arrived at religion. I pointed out that religions demand lots of resources (I showed them pictures of a church, a Hindu temple, a Jewish menorah and Muslim pilgrims on Hajj); they pose threats to health (I showed people ‘purifying their souls’ by wading in the stinking germ-laden Ganges) and make people do strange things (I showed rows of Muslims bent over with their heads on the floor). I hadn’t gone far with this before five or six young men got up and began to walk out. They had a good distance to go across the large hall, so I said ‘Excuse me, would you mind telling me why you are leaving?’ There was a long silence until one said, ‘You are offending us. We will not listen,’ and they left. Soon after that another bunch left, and then another.

I explained the idea of religions as memeplexes: they package up a set of doctrines, tell believers to learn them, to pass them on, to have faith and not doubt, and they ensure obedience with fearsome threats and ridiculous promises. This I illustrated with images of Christian heaven and hell. Then I read from the Koran “those that have faith and do good works, Allah will admit them to gardens watered by running streams … pearls and bracelets of gold.” “Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.” More walked out. By the time I arrived at a slide calling religions (Richard’s fault!) ‘Viruses of the mind’, the lecture hall was looking rather empty.

The cartoon was worse. As I have often done before, I suggested that one final trick of a desperate religion (I didn’t say quite that this time) is to forbid laughter. I warned any devout Muslims in the audience to look away as I showed one of the Danish cartoons. It’s so simple – just a bunch of terrorists arriving in heaven to be told, “Stop, stop, we ran out of virgins’. That normally gets a good laugh – along with sympathy for the cartoonists threatened with death for something so innocuous. Not this time. More walked out.

I called out to some as they left, ‘Can’t you even listen to ideas you disagree with? In Oxford, of all places, you should be open-minded enough to hear alternative views’. But no. They said I needed an open mind. This really got to me, raising painful memories of my early research on psychics and clairvoyants who said, ‘You just don’t have an open mind,’ when my careful experiments showed no psychic powers. By the time I moved on to showing Internet memes and viral videos more than half the audience was gone."

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I'd really be interested in a study that measures physiological response to faith challenges. LiberalAndProud Aug 2014 #1
Indeed gcomeau Aug 2014 #2
"The online equivalent of fleeing the lecture hall." mr blur Aug 2014 #3
fleeing the lecture hall. AlbertCat Aug 2014 #84
I'll bet she could have gotten a different response Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #4
It seemed to me to be basically the same lecture she gave at TED, with just AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #6
I haven't seen her TED lecture. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #7
At the TED confernence she touched on 'bad ideas'. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #9
Ok, now that I've watched the video. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #50
According to her version of events, the disruption began as soon as she touched on evolution. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #52
True, but it was one person, and nobody left, not even when one of the volunteers started the chant Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #55
One thing i didnt see, and would ask her given the opportunity, is AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #57
This is the thing that I find really upsetting about this. stone space Aug 2014 #16
She's British. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #17
Well, in general, ... stone space Aug 2014 #20
To each their own. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #22
I don't know who Dembski is, ... stone space Aug 2014 #23
A creationist. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #25
ID, huh? stone space Aug 2014 #26
Oh? gcomeau Aug 2014 #27
That she is unprofessional and rude? stone space Aug 2014 #30
No... gcomeau Aug 2014 #34
I have worked with a good many okasha Aug 2014 #38
And my experience is the opposite of yours. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #53
Really? okasha Aug 2014 #54
I do and I do. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #56
She calls out and chides audience members gratuitously, AlbertCat Aug 2014 #85
Argh... gcomeau Aug 2014 #14
Journalism in its best use is neutral. Editorial Opinion pages are the place for advocacy, rebuttal. pinto Aug 2014 #28
Understanding that "neutral" does not mean "artificially balanced". gcomeau Aug 2014 #29
Yeah, neutral - not artificially balanced. Agree. pinto Aug 2014 #31
Sometimes edhopper Aug 2014 #32
Mmm. See your point. pinto Aug 2014 #33
On second thought, how can truth be biased? pinto Aug 2014 #35
Climate change for instance edhopper Aug 2014 #39
Relevant: trotsky Aug 2014 #62
The point of the presentation wasn't "why religion is awful" Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #41
Religion is an example of a meme. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #65
Something seems to be going unstated here. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #68
It is as puzzling to me as some people's apparent expectation that she include something nice AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #70
It's part of good communication to establish connections with your audience. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #75
I love the lack of self-consciousness of people Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #5
You are missing something here. stone space Aug 2014 #18
I didn't miss that they were leaving silently. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #79
You are making some major assumption here based on the single report of the cbayer Aug 2014 #80
No, I can't remember ever walking out of anything in protest. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #81
A childish gesture? It can be a profound political statement. cbayer Aug 2014 #82
Yeah, I don't have a lot of respect for the 'Code' people either. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #83
Being disruptive is entirely different than silently walking out. cbayer Aug 2014 #87
Couldn't she just say positive things about religion? Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #8
Hypothetical: you sign up for college lecture on statistics. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #10
Her lecture was on memes. trotsky Aug 2014 #12
I'm assuming that religion qualifies. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #42
By the definition given, okasha Aug 2014 #49
Must every lecture be "fair and balanced?" trotsky Aug 2014 #61
Bad comparison, creationism/ID isn't science, Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #64
From your perspective it isn't. trotsky Aug 2014 #66
And I would not change my lecture to avoid that outcome. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #67
But you still haven't explained why she should have been required to do that for a lecture. n/t trotsky Aug 2014 #69
You and AtheistCrusader both ask this question. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #76
You mean... gcomeau Aug 2014 #15
Um what the heck does this have to do with the invited speaker speaking at the lecture she Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #36
She was invited to speak on memes, not "why religion is awful". Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #43
Perhaps you ought to re-read the essay. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #44
No, as I told Trotsky, I have no problem with her Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author okasha Aug 2014 #47
The chairman apologized? I didn't see that. Htom Sirveaux Aug 2014 #48
Not sure where I saw that. okasha Aug 2014 #51
Any luck? AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #94
"... you should be open-minded enough to hear alternative views." Jim__ Aug 2014 #11
Calling out and chiding audience members as they leave? stone space Aug 2014 #13
Oh do try harder. mr blur Aug 2014 #19
Please don't tell me how to post. (nt) stone space Aug 2014 #21
We are pretty much allowed to express our opinions of other people's posts here. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #37
OK, well...I'll try harder then. stone space Aug 2014 #40
that was the suggestion. Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #45
I would have stayed until she said "memeplexes". rug Aug 2014 #24
Too bad that this experience apparently did nothing but reinforce her dogmatic cbayer Aug 2014 #58
Not all muslims reject evolution. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #59
I don't understand the point of your post. cbayer Aug 2014 #60
Oh AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #63
It was not her talking about evolution that caused them to feel that way. cbayer Aug 2014 #71
Really? Blackmore is one of the most prominent Atheists in the 'activist' community, outside the AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #72
Well, I don't expect to hear much more from her. cbayer Aug 2014 #73
Nah, she'll be around. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #74
Yes, she and the horsemen will have their audience, I am sure. cbayer Aug 2014 #77
Sad! I guess she got her comeuppance. Shame on her. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #78
If half your audience is offended by criticism of ideas... MellowDem Aug 2014 #86
Oh, is that why they walked out? Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #88
It's far easier to be offended... MellowDem Aug 2014 #90
As it is far easier to retain an audience by not insulting it. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #91
Religious beliefs don't deserve respect automatically... MellowDem Aug 2014 #93
I don't respect beliefs, I respect people. Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #95
They chose to be personally insulted... MellowDem Aug 2014 #96
Right Starboard Tack Aug 2014 #99
There is some theory in play here, perhaps part of our indoctrinated cultural expectations, Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #89
I'm reminded of "The First Amendment doesn't exist so we can talk about the weather" AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #92
If the situation were just slightly different, if instead she were lecturing about Warren Stupidity Aug 2014 #97
Or even peer reviewed research about climate change. AtheistCrusader Aug 2014 #98
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