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GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
23. You would lose the Ponderosa.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:06 PM
Nov 2012

A DGU is the use of a firearm, whether fired or not, to stop the further commission of a violent crime against a person. If you just show the gun, and the mugger runs away, that is a valid DGU. Sometimes a DGU does involve firing shots, sometimes killing the felon.

Now your Ponderosa bet is that 1,000 is the extreme upper limit for DGU's

Let's count corpses. The FBI 2011 data table shows 201 justifiable homicides by private citizens using a gun against a criminal during a felony. It is well known that the FBI number is low by about half. The reason for this is that police will often list a DGU as a murder during the initial report, only to go back later and change it to justifiable homicide when the investigation is complete. The FBI picks up on the initial report, but often the modified report isn't filed with the FBI.

This website shows 236 as the number for 2010. http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/?mg=inert-wsj&standalone=1#view=all&circ=80&y=2010

Some states, such as NY, don't report justified homicides at all, since they aren't a crime.

But we will go with the FBI number, rounded to 200 as the number of dead perps killed by DGU, mostly by handguns. It is well known that most people survive being shot. About 80% (rounded from 78%) survive. http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1997/02/24/knives-00006/

So to get 200 dead thugs you need to shoot about 1,000. Now add in the thugs that run away at the sight of a gun. There are no firm numbers on that but the percentage is easily in the high 90s. Even if it is only half, that still doubles the 1,000 to 2,000.

I will take the deed to the Ponderosa now.

Trying for a more realistic figure will take some assumptions.
About half of all homes (About 65 million housing units) have a gun, and about 10 millions folks have CCWs. According to the FBI there were about 1.2 million violent crimes in the US in 2011, and 9 million property crimes. That is 10 million felony crimes per year. If only 1% of those 10 million crimes are interrupted by a gun then you have 100,000 DGUs annually. I would submit that more than 1% of crimes are interrupted by armed citizens annually.

Now you owe me many Poderosas.

Let us suppose that a DGU is a rare ev

Estimating the Number of DGUs [View all] mikeb302000 Nov 2012 OP
And yet you can't provide any proof glacierbay Nov 2012 #1
For you they're all good ones, right? mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #28
And *I'll* bet you can't produce even one link showing that he believes what you claim... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #40
Yeah, thought so. All sizzle and no steak, as usual... friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #46
Gun nut trick number 23 mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #49
Proof is posted. Clames Nov 2012 #53
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed likewise. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #56
at least provide some evidence gejohnston Nov 2012 #57
"This is not a scientific study..." Atypical Liberal Nov 2012 #2
yep, that is where I stopped reading. Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2012 #13
The actual number can't be known gejohnston Nov 2012 #3
I suppose in your mind that these aren't DGU's glacierbay Nov 2012 #4
Those don't count... ileus Nov 2012 #12
They might be. There are about 500 good ones a year. nt mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #29
And we are to accept without question your diktat about the number of DGUs? friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #41
A guy with a blog quotes a guy with a blog. Stop the presses. nt rrneck Nov 2012 #5
Blogs citing only blogs often escalate into huge non-stories slackmaster Nov 2012 #17
Actually, mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #30
We dont have to with you. nt rrneck Nov 2012 #36
propaganda professor.....LOL ileus Nov 2012 #6
I think it is funny that you have to cite an old blog to flog your own blog. ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #7
What do I think? Straw Man Nov 2012 #8
I'm not saying they're DGUs ... but ... holdencaufield Nov 2012 #9
"This is not a scientific study..." Gosh, Mike, you really don't care at all... Eleanors38 Nov 2012 #10
My opinion is that it's a frivolous, low-value speculative brain fart that contributes nothing... slackmaster Nov 2012 #11
Thanks PropagandaProfessor Nov 2012 #14
You stated yourself that your methodology was not scientific slackmaster Nov 2012 #16
for example? gejohnston Nov 2012 #20
Welcome to DU! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #21
You would lose the Ponderosa. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #23
What you're leaving out of your calculations is the number of false DGUs. mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #32
No, I easily showed over 1,000 DGU shootings. GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #43
Your numbers are horrendously off. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #24
"that actually produce a fatality" I didn't see that qualifier. nt mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #33
Read it again. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #37
Knee-jerk reactions. Straw Man Nov 2012 #27
Thanks to you Propaganda Professor mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #31
What truth? Clames Nov 2012 #44
The truth? Straw Man Nov 2012 #45
I'm afraid any list of so-called DGUs is chock full of criminal acts jckelly Nov 2012 #15
As opposed to the popular adage mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #50
I have four words for that gejohnston Nov 2012 #58
I think you gun restrictionist agenda is a complete failure. aikoaiko Nov 2012 #18
Failure? Really? mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #34
McDonald also lost at the circuit level- at first, then was upheld at the USSC. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #39
Federal appeals court strikes down concealed carry ban [Illinois] hack89 Dec 2012 #63
Big news. Peoria will be really safe now. nt mikeb302000 Dec 2012 #65
I think that the reason that the gun-restrictionist crowd goes after DGU with such Simo 1939_1940 Nov 2012 #19
The United States Department of Justice pins the number at 60k-100k per year depending on year. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #22
Too True jckelly Nov 2012 #25
Your 98% positivity is tainted by paranoia. nt mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #35
How would you know? I rather doubt you were there at the time. friendly_iconoclast Nov 2012 #38
maybe your right jckelly Nov 2012 #42
And your 500 DGU figure is pulled out of your taint. n/t Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #48
Wait... What!? Glassunion Nov 2012 #26
Mike is an expert only in accomplishing own-goals. PavePusher Dec 2012 #60
Well, not really. mikeb302000 Dec 2012 #66
You are not helping your point. Glassunion Dec 2012 #68
Is that "upwards of" 500? Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #47
Yeah, upwards of 500. nt mikeb302000 Nov 2012 #51
Which means LESS THAN 500 in your lexicon? Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #52
Not the first time mikey had been caught incorrectly using that phrase. Clames Nov 2012 #54
I remember it well. Common Sense Party Nov 2012 #55
Checking in again PropagandaProfessor Dec 2012 #59
When you ignore entire types of DGU hack89 Dec 2012 #61
Why don't you tell us how to verify the 4th category. nt mikeb302000 Dec 2012 #67
You tell us first how you can completely ignore it hack89 Dec 2012 #69
It is somewhat difficult to have a "productive discussion" on the subject of DGUs ... spin Dec 2012 #64
FWIW, I did a quick google after your earlier thread, and petronius Dec 2012 #62
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