In the discussion thread: Media Ignores Call For Gun Violence Prevention In Loughner Sentencing Hearing [View all]
Response to gejohnston (Reply #36)
Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:11 PM
Dog Gone at Penigma (431 posts)
42. doesn't matter why
Every time there is a mass shooting, like Loughner, like James Holmes, gun sales go up. So it makes perfect sense that the NRA doesn't want to stop these mass shootings - it's good for the business they REALLY represent.
Mostly fear of irrational pearl clutchers.
It doesn't matter why, or how you spin it -- those shootings are good for business. You haven't - and cannot - refute my point.
<i>Do you understand what castle doctrine means? Do you know what SYG and castle doctrine has been part of US law since the Progressive era? What is civilized about retreating from your home, putting yourself in danger? What is civilized about putting the safety of a sociopath over yours? </i>
YES, I do know quite a lot about castle doctrine AND the 2nd amendment. I've read a pretty lengthy reading list of books written by experts. You can''t cite something as historic, when in fact it is not. You are wrong. Acting as judge, jury and executioner is what is not right, not proper, not lawful, and not civilized.
<i> Suicide is independent of means. Many of those countries have higher suicide rates. Are you saying shooting yourself is tragic, but hanging yourself is not? </i>
The typical NRA member is old, white, crabby and flabby. Your board member is a draft dodging felon, who shouldn't own guns.
<i>Not only is that a logical fallacy, it is also racist. You are saying "that organization is bad because most of its members belong to a specific race". That is racist. It is also ageist for the same reason.
Who is the felon? Nugent isn't a convicted felon. If you want to see convicted felons, check out MAIG membership. Not being an NRA member, he isn't my board member. </i>
It factually accurate, it is reflected in their convention attendance, and I suggest you look at the visual images from those events. It coincides with racist right wing politics. You are correct -- he admitted committing multiple felonies, but plea bargained them down to multiple misdemeanors. THAT is still not a man who is law abiding. You also don't deny he is a draft dodger.
I believe I've rebutted your points; you have failed to rebut mine.
Not true, there are multiple studies in multiple countries which clearly show that more people attempt suicide when a gun is available, that it is far more a recourse of impulse than other means, and that it is successful far more often. Do a little homework, starting with the studies done in Switzerland and other countries, and then moving on to the stats and studies here. The countries, like Japan, that have higher suicide rates (and there are not 'many' among similar developed countries that are higher) are countries like Japan where suicide is a very unique part of their culture, unlike any other country. I'm saying - and can back it up - that the more people who have a gun, the more of them, compared to any other group, who will attempt and succeed at suicide, yes. Guns INCREASE suicide rates. All suicide is tragic; that our gun culture leads to more of them is MORE tragic.
Walmart alone has had more than one shooting a week this year at their stores -- many of them by people with concealed carry either committing crimes or having accidents. Not only have people been hurt and killed, but many innocent toilets in their mens rooms have been shot (seriously - you guys haven't apparently figured out how to go to the john without an accidental discharge).
<i>have any evidence of this? No, didn't think so. </i>
Think again. I wouldn't have written it if I wasn't prepared to back it up.
"This year it seems like I've been reading about a lot of shootings at Walmarts around the nation. Shootings happen in all sorts of locations and types of retail stores. And yet, for some reason, Walmart seems to bear the brunt of them.
So I started cataloging them. Even I was surprised at the number of shootings that have occurred just this year on Walmart property. 47, at last count, so far in 2012! Reports of shootings involving shoplifters. Police responding to conflicts. Drug deals in the parking lot. Road rage and gang shootings. Even suicides.
Why are there so many? Is it just because there are a LOT of Walmart locations around the country? And yet, other than one or two sporadic reports, you don't hear about so many shootings at Kmart stores, or Target, or Costco. Is it because Walmart sells guns and ammo, and those others don't? As far as I can tell, Target never did. Kmart stopped selling guns and ammo in 2009. Costco in 2006.
Is Walmart's pro-gun stance a factor? Does it make people feel justified in taking their guns to Walmart and settling disputes in a violent manner?
In 2006, Walmart stopped selling guns in two-thirds of its stores, but resumed sales of rifles, shotguns, and ammunition in 2011. They even sell assault rifles. It would be interesting to do a study of shooting incidents before and after they resumed sales.
Walmart's motto these days, is "Save money. Live better." If this is what they mean by living better, I think they might want to re-think their pro-gun stance, or perhaps get more security guards.
So here are the Walmart shooting incidents that I am aware of: (this is a living post, and will be updated with additional shootings as they happen in 2012)"
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|Tuesday Afternoon||Nov 2012||#2|
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doesn't matter why
|Dog Gone at Penigma||Nov 2012||#42|
|Dog Gone at Penigma||Nov 2012||#82|
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