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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
47. Warning Shots can be DGUs (Kleck)
Wed Feb 20, 2013, 03:08 PM
Feb 2013

johnston: 10. I like him too but the problem is warning shots are illegal and irresponsible because the warning shot can and sometimes do fall on an innocent a mile away. As a lawyer he should know better. Second, ARs are not more complicated or harder to use. If a coach gun is his choice fine, but he should not be giving false information or irresponsible legal advice.

Well shoot your shotgun into the ground for the warning shot, away from anyone visible, duh. Ooo, ricocheting shotgun pellets, more undangerous than a speeding bullet, unable to leap tall buildings with a single bound. Now if you've a deer slug inside, angle more down.

CharlieVicker Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't warning shots illegal?

Not when they're bona fide (pardon, duh). Gary Kleck listed some warning shots as DGUs! (defensive gun uses).

SCHULMAN: How many respondents did you have total? (nationally in klecks study)
KLECK: We had a total of 4,978 completed interviews, that is, where we had a response on the key question of whether or not there had been a defensive gun use.
SCHULMAN: So roughly 50 people out of 5000 responded that in the last year they had had to use their firearms in an actual confrontation against a human being attempting a crime?
KLECK: Handguns, yes.
SCHULMAN: Had used a handgun. And slightly more than that had used any gun.
KLECK: Right.
SCHULMAN: So that would be maybe 55, 56 people?
KLECK: Something like that, yeah.
SCHULMAN: Okay. I can just hear critics saying that 50 or 55 people responding that they used their gun and you're projecting it out to figures of around 2 million, 2-1/2 million gun defenses. Why is that statistically valid?
KLECK (just a, starting to, TAPDANCE!): Well, that's one reason why we also had a five-year recollection period. We get a much larger raw number of people saying, "Yes, I had a defensive use." It doesn't work out to be as many....


Oh, where was I? oh yes, warning shots fired:

SCHULMAN: Let's talk about how the guns were actually used in order to accomplish the defense. How many people, for example, had to merely show the gun, as opposed to how many had to fire a warning shot, as to how many actually had to attempt to shoot or shoot their attacker?
KLECK: We got all of the details about everything that people could have done with a gun from as mild an action as merely verbally referring to the gun on up to actually shooting somebody.
SCHULMAN: Could you give me the percentages?
KLECK: You have to keep in mind that it's quite possible for people to have done more than one of these things since they could obviously both verbally refer to the gun and point it at somebody or even shoot it.
KLECK: 54% of the defensive gun uses involved somebody verbally referring to the gun. 47%involved the gun being pointed at the criminal. 22% involved the gun being fired. 14% involved the gun being fired at somebody, meaning it wasn't just a warning shot; the defender was trying to shoot the criminal. Whether they succeeded or not is another matter but they were trying to shoot a criminal. And then in 8% they actually did wound or kill the offender.
SCHULMAN: In 8% wounded or killed. You don't have it broken down beyond that?
KLECK: Wound versus kill? No. Again that was thought to be too sensitive a question. Although we did have, I think, two people who freely offered the information that they had, indeed, killed someone. Keep in mind that the 8% figure is based on so few cases that you have to interpret it with great caution. [/i http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kleck.interview.html

Hahaha! 'so few cases' - that's for sure gary! cause 8% wounded or killed was about 4 or 5 total people (2 killed) shooting or wounding in the whole junky study! and extrapolating that out meant ~200,000 gunshot injuries for that year of the study, b b b but only 100,000 reported gunshot wounds that year!
Phantom Gunshot Victims - HEAL THYSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Instead of a shotgun ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #1
That would be a nice addition to my collection slackmaster Feb 2013 #2
Great Choice ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #6
I love Joe. .....and agree with him. Tippy Feb 2013 #3
I like him too but the problem is gejohnston Feb 2013 #10
I'm sure all his secret service guys abide by this wish as well. appal_jack Feb 2013 #58
Message auto-removed CharlieVicker Feb 2013 #4
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! slackmaster Feb 2013 #22
I would assume so in most urban areas... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #43
No recoil issue with that and reloading is a cinch. DonP Feb 2013 #5
Yes, because of course everyone needs to own a gun or two or three. SheilaT Feb 2013 #7
Then, can I have yours? holdencaufield Feb 2013 #8
As if I have one. SheilaT Feb 2013 #11
I admire your lack of adversity. holdencaufield Feb 2013 #14
I have a feeling that it's not so unusual. SheilaT Feb 2013 #17
I'm unclear ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #19
Please notice the name I'm posting under. SheilaT Feb 2013 #41
"They're not the gender I'm interested in" holdencaufield Feb 2013 #44
She has a cigarette? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #39
So as far as gun control goes... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #42
just like I tell the anti choice crowd gejohnston Feb 2013 #12
what point of mine are you responding to? iiibbb Feb 2013 #13
Not a bad choice, not as good as an AR but they are cheaper. ileus Feb 2013 #9
Message auto-removed CharlieVicker Feb 2013 #24
Ash sez ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #26
Even a boomstick is effective when everyone else has diddle. iiibbb Feb 2013 #32
As long as it's not another butchered Stevens 311D. My "Circle G" still has 28" bbls. Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #48
I am with Joe on this riqster Feb 2013 #15
Glocks are simple iiibbb Feb 2013 #23
You'd be surprised. riqster Feb 2013 #31
A Glock is so simple, I don't even need a gun smith. iiibbb Feb 2013 #33
That is not because of the Glock riqster Feb 2013 #36
Simplicity. Straw Man Feb 2013 #37
The Veep was talking about a daily-use standpoint riqster Feb 2013 #38
Jared Loughner found a Glock simple enough to use. mwrguy Feb 2013 #52
He also took a taxi.... iiibbb Feb 2013 #53
How many people did he kill with his taxi? mwrguy Feb 2013 #54
It got him there... iiibbb Feb 2013 #55
Thank you for being reasonable.. Tippy Feb 2013 #28
Pols should stick to things they know about ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #16
The what would they do? iiibbb Feb 2013 #20
fire a warning shot in florida and expect to go to prison. bubbayugga Feb 2013 #46
I'm sure someone will follow Joe's advice and end up arrested for discharging a firearm ... spin Feb 2013 #18
In my neighbourhood ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #21
Double Barrel vs Pump Shotgun -- with reloading holdencaufield Feb 2013 #25
The sound of a cocking shotgun can be enough to run off a burglar or thief. Lint Head Feb 2013 #27
The pump action shot gun you picture ... holdencaufield Feb 2013 #29
But then again it isn't defensively smart to give up your position or have an unready weapon. iiibbb Feb 2013 #30
At least it would if the burglar or thief had HEARD that sound before. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #57
My single barrel shotgun has proven to work just fine twice and all I had to do was cock it, appleannie1 Feb 2013 #34
According to some prohibitionists, that does not count as a defensive gun use. iiibbb Feb 2013 #35
When I am standing in my diningroom in the middle of the night and a stranger is in my basement appleannie1 Feb 2013 #50
What sound does your single barrel shotgun make ...... oldhippie Feb 2013 #45
Wow! A lot of DU members aren't totally supporting the VP. All of them must be NRA shills. DonP Feb 2013 #40
Warning Shots can be DGUs (Kleck) jimmy the one Feb 2013 #47
Imagine! Joe Biden engenders a debate over proper home-defense guns! Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #49
Biden needs to stop with these types of comments. Dr_Scholl Feb 2013 #51
Fire two blasts, look the intruder in the eye, then say "TAG! I'm it!" and run. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #56
What is interesting about Jenoch Feb 2013 #59
Probably the best choice for me. The Green Manalishi Feb 2013 #60
I guess if you could get the person/persons breaking your door down to sign a contract to just steal Yavapai Feb 2013 #62
Well, I always try The Green Manalishi Feb 2013 #63
Double barrel, Joe? kudzu22 Feb 2013 #61
Hey Biden, just issue me one and I will be there for the drills. Thanks Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #64
And, don't forget Joe, she should yell, "this is my boom stick!!!" aikoaiko Feb 2013 #65
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