I wrote this over some time in notepad and it has more the character of a formal argument or exposition than a typical forum rejoiner. On the other hand I post now in reply to a person who quite evidently hasn't read my other responses in the threads that he mentions, so the task I set myself wasn't to enlighten *him*, but rather to collect some important information and put it into an order that makes seeing connections a bit easier.
The dispute:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=39719
Response to holdencaufield (Reply #3)
Mon Apr 15, 2013, 05:14 AM
delrem (862 posts)
14. Arab Israeli citizens aren't Israeli nationals. Israel is a specifically Jewish state. nt
in direct response:
holdencaufield (2,829 posts)
15. If you're going to smoke dope and post ...
... bring enough for everyone.
It's just common courtesy.
Also in direct response:
Dick Dastardly (818 posts)
25. This is false. Arab citizens are Israeli nationals.
This has been shown to you many times but you continue to repeat this nonsense.
++++++++++++++++++++
delrem April 18, 2013
In defense of the 2-part statement
Arab Israeli citizens aren't Israeli nationals. Israel is a specifically Jewish state.
1. Israel is a specifically Jewish state.
Both proof and meaning of this is laid down by Israel's high court, which hearkens
to the definition of Israel.
/begin 1/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Jewish_and_Democratic_State#Israeli_High_Court_of_Justice.27s_commentary
"Regarding the meaning of the definition of "Jewish and Democratic State" in this section of the law,
then President of the Supreme Court of Israel, Aharon Barak, wrote that a narrow interpretation should be given to it,
since it limits a basic right, in contrast to the broader interpretation that should be given to laws concerning
Human rights.
Concerning the minimal interpretation of "a Jewish State", Justice Aharon Barak ruled that:
"What, then are the 'core' characteristics shaping the minimum definition of the State of Israel as a Jewish State?
These characteristics come from the aspects of both Zionism and heritage. At their center stands the right of
every Jew to immigrate to the State of Israel, where the Jews will constitute a majority;
Hebrew is the official and principal language of the State and most of its fests and symbols reflect the
national revival of the Jewish People; The heritage of the Jewish People is a central component of its religious
and cultural legacy".
--Aharon Barak
/end 1/
2. Nationality is distinct from citizenship.
/begin 2/
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/theocracy.html
In a landmark Supreme Court decision, Justice Agranat
ruled against a man who wanted to have his nationality registration changed from "Jewish" to "Israeli" saying:
"There is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish people." He asserted further that "the Jewish people is composed
not only of those residing in Israel but also of Diaspora Jewry.@ (Oscar Kraines, The Impossible Dilemma: Who is a Jew
in the State of Israel, NY: Bloch Publishing, Co., 1976, p. 67) This conception of nationality does not fit with the
conventional understanding of the term as Menachem Begin explains:
"In Western Europe or the United States, "nationality" is synonymous with "citizenship." A national of a given state is
a citizen of that state, or at least one born under its jurisdiction. In Central and Eastern Europe citizenship and nationality
are distinct. We have Israeli citizens of diverse religions. on the other hand, Jewish nationality and religion must
always go together. (In Eliezer Goldman, Religious Issues in Israel=s Political Life)"
/end 2/
3. This is important enough for the Israeli high court to be involved in judgments re. "Who is a Jew"
/begin 3/
http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/English/Jewish+Education/Compelling+Content/Eye+on+Israel/Activities+and+Programming/Law+of+Return/20.+High+Court+ruling+in+Who+is+a+Jew+case.htm
IN THE SUPREME COURT SITTING AS HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
Before the President (Justice Agranat), the Deputy President (Justice Silberg), Justices Sussman, Landau, Berinson, Witkon, Cohn, Many and Kister.
Binyamin Shalit, Petitioner, v. 1. Minister of Interior, 2. Haifa Registration Officer, Respondents (H.C. 58/58).
The High Court, by majority decision, made absolute an order nisi calling upon the Minister of the Interior and the
Haifa Registrar of Inhabitants to show cause why the petitioner's children should not be registered as being "Jewish" by
ethnic affiliation.
/end 3/
4. 'nationality' and 'citizenship' are distinct terms in Hebrew, but often presented as equivalent or the same
in translation.
/begin 4/
Jewish Nationality
http://www.hic-mena.org/documents/HC%20Israel%20mission%20ltr.pdf
The legal distinction between le’om (nationality) and ezrahut (citizenship) became most clear
in the case of George Tamarin v. the State of Israel (1970), wherein a Jewish Israeli had
petitioned to have the official registration of his nationality changed from "Jewish" to "Israeli."
The High Court denied his request as "there is no Israeli nation separate from the Jewish
nation...composed not only of those residing in Israel but also of Diaspora Jewry." Then
president of the High Court Justice Shimon Agranat explained that acknowledging a uniform
Israeli nationality "would negate the very foundation upon which the State of Israel was
formed."
It is incorrect to refer to a status of "Israeli nationality"; it simply does not exist.
Therefore, nationality status in Israel is not linked to residence in a territory, as is the norm in
international law. Instead, the basic theocratic preference of the Israeli legal system
establishes ethnic criteria as the grounds for enjoyment of economic, social and cultural
rights
Also see:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-there-are-no-israelis-in-the-jewish-state/18521
Why There Are no ‘Israelis’ in the Jewish State
Citizens classed as Jewish or Arab nationals
By Jonathan Cook
Global Research, April 06, 2010
Also tightly connected:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/court-rules-judaism-not-place-of-birth-is-grounds-for-israeli-citizenship-1.430676
Court rules Judaism, not place of birth, is grounds for Israeli citizenship
Israeli court denies petition by anti-coercion activist to be recognized as Israeli
without connection to Judaism, says citizenship is solely determined by law of return.
"In his ruling on Tuesday, Judge Daniel Fisch said that it was without a doubt that the petitioner,
Prof Uzzi Ornan, was born to a Jewish mother, and was therefore Jewish, which the law of return
states as the source of his citizenship."
And more recently reconfirmed:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126858#.UW9u1LUqbIo
Court Rejects Group Appeal to Be Declared "Israeli" in IDs
A group of citizens, most of them Jews, asked to have the "nationality" box in their IDs changed
from "Jewish" to "Israeli." The court refused.
First Publish: 7/15/2008
This can get very picky and mean:
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israeli-investigated-on-his-jewish-status-after-haaretz-interview-1.367961
Israeli investigated on his Jewish status after Haaretz interview
Kibbutz resident Itai Bar believes a Family Affair article is to blame for his case being 'blocked'
at the population registrar office; in the article, Bar is quoted as calling himself a 'Shabbes goy.'
"Bar arrived at the population registrar office in Be'er Sheva to obtain a document he needed.
To his surprise, the clerk there told him his case was "blocked." He said that there was an alert
about my nationality, following a report."
/end 4/
5. Until recently, when the same information was encoded in numbers (easily recognized by any Israeli)
an Israeli Idenity Card openly displayed this information
/begin 5/
http://books.google.ca/books?id=_gAtsgfO6S0C&pg=PA406&lpg=PA406&dq=ezrahut+le'um&source=bl&ots=7xCgjPXxLg&sig=HCLect6RT2f4AFxM6S1M63GCoMw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bVdtUfDeNIGeiQLehIGYDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ezrahut%20le'um&f=false
The Identity Card of a Hebrew resident of the State of Palestine would read:
Citizenship (Exrahut/al-Jinsiyya): Palestinian
Peoplehood ('Am/al-Shaab): Palestinian-Hebrew
Nationality (Le'um/al-Qawmiyya): Hebrew
Religion (Datlal-Din): None/Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Other
The identity Card of an Arab resident of the State of Israel would read:
Citizenship (Exrahut/al-Jinsiyya): Israeli
Peoplehood ('Am/al-Shaab): Palestinian-Arab
Nationality (Le'um/al-Qawmiyya): Arab
Religion (Datlal-Din): None/Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Other
The identity Card of a Hebrew resident of the State of Israel would read:
Citizenship (Exrahut/al-Jinsiyya): Israeli
Peoplehood ('Am/al-Shaab): Palestinian-Hebrew
Nationality (Le'um/al-Qawmiyya): Hebrew
Religion (Datlal-Din): None/Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Other
/end 5/
6. The legal distinction between le’om (nationality) and ezrahut (citizenship) is ignored
by those who present Israel's Citizenship Law as a "Nationality Law". A translation that
properly recognizes this important distinction is:
/begin 6/
http://www.knesset.gov.il/laws/special/eng/citizenship_law.htm
The Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law (temporary provision) 5763 - 2003
/end 6/
7. The separation of nations in the highest law of the land, describing how the Jewish nation is superior
and state recognized and all others are subordinate nations, has immense consequences and is the foundation
for an apartheid state, prohibiting democratic redress.
/begin 7/
http://newdemocracyworld.org/old/state.htm
Section 7A(1) of the Basic Law of Israel explicitly prevents Israeli citizens - Arab or Jewish - from
using the "democratic" system of Israeli elections to challenge the inferior status of Arabs under the law;
it restricts who can run for political office with this language: "A candidates' list shall not participate
in elections to the Knesset if among its goals or deeds, either expressly or impliedly, are one of the
following: (1) The negation of the existence of the State of Israel as the State of the Jewish People. ..."
In a 1989 Israeli Supreme Court ruling (reported in the 1991 Israel Law Review, Vol. 25, p. 219, published
by the Faculty of Law at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem) Justice S. Levine, speaking for the majority,
ruled that this law meant that a political party could not run candidates if it intended to achieve the
cancellation of one of the fundamental tenets of the State - namely "the existence of a Jewish majority,
the granting of preference to Jews in matters of immigration, and the existence of close and reciprocal
relations between the State and the Jews of the Diaspora."
/end 7/
8. The unequal, asymmetrical law with respect to the rights of people according as their nationality has
immense practical consequences for peoples of the subordinate nationalities.
/begin 8a/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4174616,00.html
High Court rejects petition against 'Citizenship Law'
Published: Dec 01/2012
Petition against law aimed at limiting reunification of Palestinian, Arab-Israeli families denied in 6:5 vote
The High Court of Justice on Wednesday rejected a petition against the "Citizenship Law" which aims to limit
the reunification of Palestinian and Arab-Israeli families. Six judges voted to deny the petition and five
voted to grant it.
Judges Eliezer Rivlin, Asher Grunis, Miriam Naor, Elyakim Rubinstein, Hanan Meltzer and Neal Handel ruled
that the petition must be denied. In their ruling they wrote that they recognize the right for family reunification
as derived from the right to dignity but ruled that it does not necessarily warrant implementation inside Israel.
/end 8a/
/begin 8b/
http://www.knesset.gov.il/description/eng/eng_mimshal_yesod2.htm#2
Basic Law: Israel Lands
Passed on July 25, 1960, by the fourth Knesset.
The basis of the law is the special relationship between the People of Israel and the Land of Israel and its redemption.
The law ensures that the state lands, which constitute about 90% of the lands in the state, should remain national property.
The law prohibits the transfer of ownership over lands owned by the state, the Development Authority or the
Jewish National Fund, either by sale or by any other means, with the exception of types of land or transactions,
that have been specified in the law.
/end 8b/
9. The People of Israel are the same as The Children of Israel.
B'nei Yisrael ("Children of Israel"
can denote the Jewish people at any time in history.
Coupled with 8b, above, The Jewish National Fund
/begin 9/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_National_Fund
Jewish National Fund
/end 9/
10. It is important to read the report from the Levy Committee,
Report on the Legal Status of Building in Judea and Samaria,
in light of the abovemeantioned high court legal precedent and basic law.
/begin 10/
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.ca/2012/07/english-translation-of-legal-arguments.html
This gives an English translation of the legal arguments of the report itself, and its
conclusions. Note that this report never once mentions the existence of a Palestinian
people, or terms like 'West Bank', but throughout describes the territory as already
annexed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levy_Report
This gives the standard wiki treatment.
/end 10/
Thank you for reading this synopsis.
Edit history
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