Israel/Palestine

pelsar

(12,283 posts)

91. thats what i thought...moving the goal posts are we now..?

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 07:22 AM

Jan 2013

first you wrote:

They don't want to dismantle settlements of any size, large or small, as Shira helpfully pointed out; they want to preserve and expand them, and add to their number.

now you wrote:

You show me a Zionist who accepts a full 100% evacuation of the West Bank behind the Green Line as an option. They don't have to endorse the idea, even, they just have to be willing to accept it if that's what the Palestinians decide to go with.

do you see a difference? so which is it? which claim of yours is the one fits your particular definition of zionist. and then explain why you wrote the one that you no longer agree with....

and i didnt say "drop their name"....the admittance that you were wrong about what defines a zionist...or is that too much for you

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Highlight:

Yair Lapid, surprise of the Israeli election [View all] oberliner Jan 2013 OP

A welcomed surprise. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #1

Why? Is Yesh preferable to Labor, for some reason? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #2

Meretz would keep major settlement blocs too, so? n/t shira Jan 2013 #4

Have they actually said that? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #5

Yeah, they did. shira Jan 2013 #7

The settment blocs make peace impossible. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #23

RoR makes peace impossible. That's clear based on Abbas' recent remarks.... shira Jan 2013 #25

If you assume that the PLO, or Palestinians, would never make peace at any time Ken Burch Jan 2013 #26

When the PA would rather see 150,000 Syrian Palestinians dead than renounce RoR.... shira Jan 2013 #28

The PA refused to arbitrarily cross out the rights of Palestinians on Israel's demand, you mean Scootaloo Jan 2013 #31

Amazing. You can't even criticize Abbas for his ridiculously evil statement.... shira Jan 2013 #33

I've already done so Scootaloo Jan 2013 #35

He gave the refugees no choice. They die rather than give up their RoR. shira Jan 2013 #39

And yet, seems that he worked out something to get them into the west bank anyway Scootaloo Jan 2013 #41

Those refugees aren't headed to the W.Bank. They're still rotting in Syria. shira Jan 2013 #42

"Palestinian refugees are rotting away in camps throughout the mideast - in apartheid conditions" R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #45

Apartheid in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan....since 1948. shira Jan 2013 #47

"Palestinian refugees are rotting away in camps throughout the mideast - in apartheid" R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #62

Your deflection and non-answer tells me all I need to know. n/t shira Jan 2013 #63

Shira, my poor misguided friend. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #66

My friend, you missed the part about rotting away in CAMPS.... shira Jan 2013 #68

The West Bank and Gaza are two really big refugee camps a la Israel. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #72

R.Daneel, my poor dear misguided friend, there are no refugee camps Israel runs.... shira Jan 2013 #80

I'm surprised that you are still standing after all that spin. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #92

Israel is not responsible for the great grandchildren of refugees. That's UNRWA..... shira Jan 2013 #95

Non-Jews who live in Israel have their rights. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #76

Blacks in 1946 Alabama had the vote, too. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #88

It is how they vote in the elections and sabbat hunter Jan 2013 #93

Sorry. Casting a ballot does equate democracy. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #94

So, you don't blame people who exploited Jewish refugees Scootaloo Jan 2013 #79

Palestinian refugees who've lived 6 decades under apartheid rule under UN auspices.... shira Jan 2013 #81

You're still supporting giving refugees a shakedown. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #86

What shakedown? shira Jan 2013 #90

shira...why do you defend the Israeli demand that Syrian Pals renounce RoR BEFORE Ken Burch Jan 2013 #44

You hit the proverbial nail on the head, KB. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #46

Now I'll ask you the same question as I did Ken.... shira Jan 2013 #49

Can you not see that making them sign off on RoR wouldn't actually CHANGE anything? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #51

Shira, Shira. I have already posted what I thought of Abbas. I don't agree with what he said R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #64

You're more outraged at Israel WRT signing a note on RoR than you are WRT Abbas.... shira Jan 2013 #48

It's not as simple as yes or no. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #50

You don't appear to be outraged at Abbas' statement. shira Jan 2013 #52

Abbas' response isn't worse than Netanyahu's unjustified and pointless demand. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #53

Unbelievable. You're putting RoR above the right to live/exist. shira Jan 2013 #54

What I'm saying is that making them renounce RoR isn't worth it. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #55

You should be for them signing off on RoR, for humane reasons.... shira Jan 2013 #56

Why is getting the renounciation first MORE important than getting a real, negotiated peace? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #57

Thank you shira azurnoir Jan 2013 #8

And thank you for demonizing Israel's Left, because only Zionists make bad Leftists. n/t shira Jan 2013 #9

lol pointing out the truth is demonizing azurnoir Jan 2013 #10

Nah, it's typical anti-zionist fodder. Like Ali Abunimah claiming Amos Oz.... shira Jan 2013 #11

geez just can't quit the reflexive rhetoric? azurnoir Jan 2013 #12

Meretz is just as reasonable as any other centrist party in Israel.... shira Jan 2013 #13

I support Meretz on the other issues(I suspect most of their voters oppose keeping the settlements). Ken Burch Jan 2013 #16

The Geneva Accord calls for land swaps too, with major settlements.... shira Jan 2013 #17

What's so extreme about wanting your country's territory to be contiguous? Ken Burch Jan 2013 #18

Norm fcuking Finkelstein calls BS on these "reasonable" demands... shira Jan 2013 #19

BDS wants a single-state solution...the '67 boundaries have nothing in common with that. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #20

So do you when you call for RoR. Cut the shit. n/t shira Jan 2013 #21

I don't call for full physical RoR. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #24

Well then, the Palestinians will never agree to peace with you... shira Jan 2013 #36

Actually, all they've said is that they won't give up RoR as a precondition. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #58

If they're willing to compromise, then Abbas and his goons wouldn't declare outright.... shira Jan 2013 #59

I don't defend everything(or really, much of anything) that's been done to Pal refugees. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #60

You and your fellow advocates don't ever stand up against what's done to the refugees. shira Jan 2013 #61

Not ALL Zionists insist on keeping the big settlement blocs. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #65

Then name them. Who are they? Has anyone heard of them before? shira Jan 2013 #67

Don't assume I respect or support ALL of those groups. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #69

Azur didn't demonize Israel's left...she just criticized the positions some of its leaders take. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #22

So Meretz, PeaceNow, J-Street, Geneva, Larry Derfner, Amos Oz, Yitzak Rabin, etc.... shira Jan 2013 #29

Yes. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #32

I'm assuming you're atheist. If so, what makes the '67 lines sacrosanct? shira Jan 2013 #34

Land swaps are not "blasphemous" Scootaloo Jan 2013 #37

The Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. Taken in 1948. Jews ethnically cleansed.... shira Jan 2013 #38

That's actually a good question, but it leads to another one; Scootaloo Jan 2013 #40

Wrong answer. Please don't deflect. I'll answer you after you answer me first. n/t shira Jan 2013 #43

It's not a deflection, Shira Scootaloo Jan 2013 #75

You keep trying to change the subject. Stay the fuck focused.... shira Jan 2013 #82

Any Jews that were ethnically cleansed, delrem Jan 2013 #70

The problem with RoR in the Arab/Israel conflict is that it would result in more war... shira Jan 2013 #83

Hey, careful. You are using reason there. R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #73

just for fun... pelsar Jan 2013 #77

IHL via the San Remo Conference of 1920 doesn't see Jews as colonialists... shira Jan 2013 #84

nothing like putting ones head in the sand pelsar Jan 2013 #78

My mind is open - just not so much that my brain falls out. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #85

nothing like a bit arrogance is there...makes life easier pelsar Jan 2013 #87

Well, there would have to be a Zionist who agrees to dismantle the settlements Scootaloo Jan 2013 #89

thats what i thought...moving the goal posts are we now..? pelsar Jan 2013 #91

You asked me what proof I wanted. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #96

You first asserted something demonstrably false... shira Jan 2013 #97

Wait wait... Here's what you said, post #29 Scootaloo Jan 2013 #100

You claimed Zionists are against ANY type of evacuation.... shira Jan 2013 #101

You said they're against evacuation. Then you say they're for it. Scootaloo Jan 2013 #102

wrong again...you can admit your wrong again for the 2nd time (more are coming) pelsar Jan 2013 #98

There are unicorns! Well, at least two. A few more questions, if you will... Scootaloo Jan 2013 #99

you were wrong....its that simple.....admit it (what no courage?) pelsar Jan 2013 #103

Their collective political body is a disaster, for the Palestinians. Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #14

OK...there is that. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #15

That was my point thank you azurnoir Jan 2013 #27

I like the idea of Bibi having a perpetual headache. Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #30

What's the difference b/w Yesh Atid and Kadima? n/t shira Jan 2013 #3

Not much. Mainly Lapid's personal charisma. Ken Burch Jan 2013 #6

Broadcast News, William Hurt? i.e., St. Ronnie? n/t delrem Jan 2013 #71

Maybe Lapid will end up having to resign Ken Burch Jan 2013 #74