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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
9. Do you think a solution is possible?
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:06 PM
Dec 2012

Before the planet hits +4C, I mean?

I know there are a lot of attractive, interesting and potentially useful things that can be done to reduce carbon emissions. There are also some ugly, horrifying, probably useless things that should not be done. And then there are things that will make precious little difference, but might have value in other aspects of the human experience.

It seems to me that in order to decide which camp a given idea falls into, one must understand what the issues are, what the problem is we're trying to address. Each of us sorts the ideas differently according to our belief systems.

That's where the pro and anti-nuclear debate comes from. My views are, to some extent, a product of that debate. I started off being fairly neutral about the issue. As I discovered and thought more about carbon I became strongly pro-nuclear for a while. Then when I realized the implications of having large numbers of nuclear reactors and large amounts of hazardous waste around during a social breakdown, I turned anti again. Now I've come to terms with the idea of an eventual breakdown of civilization, and I'm back to being fairly neutral about the technology itself while still thinking it's a bad idea to develop things like that.

To me the singular problem is carbon, but it's a trap that has already been sprung. We have put too much carbon into the atmosphere to be able to avoid a dangerous rise in temperature and dangerous acidification of the oceans. At the same time there are too many people alive now who are too dependent on carbon energy to allow us to turn that tap off. We got ourselves into this fix by being too clever by half, and I see all new forms of energy - whether it's thorium, windmills or PV panels - as being further manifestations of that cleverness. At the same time they are totally unable (for a number of reasons) to solve the root problem of our carbon-dependent civilization.

So I would prefer that we put our ingenuity to work addressing other issues than energy. Like experimenting with low-carbon activities such as permaculture, or better, faster computers, or encouraging people to think with their long-term minds instead of their short-term brains.

I think that those who will survive the coming turmoil and spread truly sustainable ideas into our traumatized future won't be gadget-heads. They will be those who build communities and develop new stories about what humanity is doing here and how we can cooperate instead of dominate each other and life in general.

I know that my beliefs about who we are, what we're doing, what is happening and why are extreme - especially in comparison to mainstream environmentalists. That's largely because I no longer buy the cultural story that man is the measure of all things, the arbiter of all value, and that everything we do should be judged only in relation to its impact on human beings. That, and the fact that I've traced the implications of observed human behaviour through to its logical conclusion, and have accepted what I found at the endpoint.

I think there's a place here for people with views like mine - after all, the board is for discussions about energy and environment issues, with no requirement that one should think the issues have solutions. I'd like to put my marks on this side of the ledger, in the hopes of stimulating deeper though about where we are, where we're going, and why. I know that's uncomfortable for people who are attached to the idea that every man-made problem must have a man-made solution. However, these are not comfortable times - they're times for deep reflection and deep honesty. IMHO.

LFTR,read up on it and watch the videos. jonthebru Dec 2012 #1
Its biggest problem is the uranium mining industry wtmusic Dec 2012 #2
Me, too. And I am famously anti-nuke (the dangerous waste-generating kind). kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #3
Not me. I'm now anti-nuke all the way. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #4
That's where a carbon tax comes in wtmusic Dec 2012 #5
How do you make every country on the planet go along with it? GliderGuider Dec 2012 #6
Either you believe a solution is possible, or you don't. wtmusic Dec 2012 #7
Do you think a solution is possible? GliderGuider Dec 2012 #9
I don't understand the purpose of deeper thought if it's merely an expression of hopelessness. wtmusic Dec 2012 #12
There are seven billion different ways of finding value in existence. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #14
Oh, I'm all about LFTR, but we have to be honest about it. joshcryer Dec 2012 #8
But the top story is about a current project. Not some future pipe dream. jonthebru Dec 2012 #10
U233 not required. wtmusic Dec 2012 #13
Right, the "round about way." joshcryer Dec 2012 #15
No wtmusic Dec 2012 #17
Since it takes about a decade to build a reactor after permission is granted. joshcryer Dec 2012 #21
Your assumptions are based on no historical precedent wtmusic Dec 2012 #22
WEll, do you got a timeline when you think it will be built? joshcryer Dec 2012 #23
It could be built in 5 years. wtmusic Dec 2012 #25
Flibe Energy exists, though. joshcryer Dec 2012 #26
Again, you don't understand. PamW Dec 2012 #19
Then why does the thorium community want U233? joshcryer Dec 2012 #20
Having a hard time understanding? PamW Dec 2012 #27
God, you didn't even read my original fucking post here. joshcryer Dec 2012 #31
Evidently you don't understand how it works... PamW Dec 2012 #18
I was not aware that the thorium community wanted to start it with U235. joshcryer Dec 2012 #24
What U-233? PamW Dec 2012 #28
We have roughly 450 kg of U233 from the nuclear program. joshcryer Dec 2012 #32
Order of magnitude shy... PamW Dec 2012 #34
They want to start with a small reactor. joshcryer Dec 2012 #37
Where does it say that? PamW Dec 2012 #46
"So a LFTR, started on U-233..." Read the article? joshcryer Dec 2012 #47
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #52
Politics played the biggest role, I admit. joshcryer Dec 2012 #53
For a guy who doesn't approve of energy, you certainly spend a lot of time on the internet. NNadir Dec 2012 #29
Why not? Arguing on the internet is a great way to pass the time till dinner. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #30
I'm just noting that many of the advocates of killing off humanity in an orgy of primitivism... NNadir Dec 2012 #57
Fishing again? nt GliderGuider Dec 2012 #58
There's a difference between advocacy and observation. joshcryer Dec 2012 #59
It's passive poverty. wtmusic Dec 2012 #33
Your lame attempt at moral bullying is duly noted. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #35
That's very profound, but in truth wtmusic Dec 2012 #36
What aspects of my expressed positions do you feel are hypocritical? GliderGuider Dec 2012 #38
This is ground that we've already covered but it's best phrased as a question wtmusic Dec 2012 #39
I don't approve or recommend dieoff. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #40
Inaction is approving dieoff. wtmusic Dec 2012 #41
Die off certainly isn't recommended. joshcryer Dec 2012 #44
Why do you give geoengineering a 50/50 shot? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #49
Sulphate aerosols are known to work (volcanos prove it). joshcryer Dec 2012 #50
Of course they "work" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #51
The results would be devestating either way. joshcryer Dec 2012 #54
Time will tell NoOneMan Dec 2012 #55
Necessity mainly. joshcryer Dec 2012 #56
Only if one feels that action will prevent it. GliderGuider Dec 2012 #45
Bad action is hastening dieoff NoOneMan Dec 2012 #48
BALONEY!!!! PamW Dec 2012 #16
The name "Thor Energy" XemaSab Dec 2012 #11
I noticed that, too! Odin2005 Dec 2012 #42
Yay for my fellow Norskies! Odin2005 Dec 2012 #43
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