Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Peacemaking and Community

In reply to the discussion: No more war [View all]

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
1. They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
Tue Aug 28, 2012, 05:30 PM
Aug 2012

and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. [Isaiah 2:4]

That is a beautiful sentiment, but it is end of the word gobbledygook. I was born seven years after the end of WWII. My father was a veteran of WWII and Korea.

I am anti unnecessary war, which is to say I am not a pacifist but am opposed to the use of war for political, territorial gain, resources, or because some leader wants to get a one up on his daddy. I do think the use of the military to aid people who are seeking to throw off a real tyrant busy murdering his people is a legitimate use of power.

WWII was a necessary war that was brought to us. Some here will disagree. Korea was political, part of that post WWII period when the U.S. and Russia were fighting proxy wars and encouraging proxy wars to see had the who was boss. We interfered because had we not, the whole Korean Peninsula would be like North Korea is today; a tiny, starving nation, lead by a dynasty of isolationist zealots. If we are going to complain about South Korea's political laws, we should seriously consider North Korea's Laws.

Vietnam was similar to Korea, though it had a long history of war, having with China, the French, Japanese, and the U.S. Still, I oppose getting involved because it was never necessary to our national survival.

Panama was essentially a police action using the military. Norriega was indicted, so we went, we arrested him, we left. Would our nation have survived if we left that petty dictator in place? Yes, so it wasn't necessary in that way, but we could have hardly sent in U.S. Marshals and arrested him.

Because the perpetrators of 9/11 were terrorists and not nation states, I felt they should have been pursued as criminals rather than sending the military to kick ass and take names. We fought Iraq because we stupidly thought we could create a Jeffersonian Democracy that would make the middle east love us, and to gain control of their oil. Both of those goals were unmet. It was a stupid waste of time, resources, and a monumental waste of lives.

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Fighting there is stupid. We are not going to make them like us and they will pretty much go back to the way they were before we or the Russians, or the British were there. It was a war fought stupidly in its beginning a pointlessly as it winds down.

Libya, I supported it because the people asked us to help and we did not have to invade and occupy to do it. My view of the war is tainted by my sense that a great part of our reason to help them was because Europe benefited with Libya's oil. If we did the same with Syria, I would think better of the exercise, because the Syrian people are being treated the same way the Libyans were. The difference is that the Russians don't want us playing in their pumpkin patch, so it is a political standoff while Syria murders its citizens. It appears to me, that it will cause the death toll to go higher, but the government will change as demanded by the people. They have the right to change their government.

So clearly, I am not anti all war, and I do not buy the notion that at the end of times some deity will come and force us to play nice. I am anti-unnecessary war, and feel the military is a legitimate tool to aid others who are being abused by their government if they ask for help.

No more war [View all] no more war Aug 2012 OP
They shall beat their swords into plowshares, Agnosticsherbet Aug 2012 #1
I wonder when we can look forward to that "into plowshares" bit. merrily Apr 2014 #15
End of times prophesies require a God ruled theocratic totalitarian state, Agnosticsherbet Apr 2014 #16
You're welcome, but I have no idea how that happened! merrily May 2014 #17
Peace would be nice and it can still be prosperous too. think Aug 2012 #2
How about "no more violence of choice."? zipplewrath Sep 2012 #3
Thanks. november3rd Sep 2012 #4
the world would be better without war PRAparty Mar 2013 #5
Why do you vote republican? uppityperson Mar 2013 #6
A question. What is the PRA party? pinto Mar 2013 #7
You have a generally agreeable view on war, and I have a few republican friends who feel the same. bluesbassman Mar 2013 #8
interesting post. War is one thing...how and why we go to war is another. NRaleighLiberal Mar 2013 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2013 #10
Anti war thread is much needed ted08721 Apr 2014 #11
99 RED BALLOONS 12kbush Apr 2014 #12
End all wars!!! beachsinger Apr 2014 #13
Welcome. I, too, hope we can end them. merrily Apr 2014 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author BVM Aug 2014 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author BVM Aug 2014 #19
A New Campaign Against War Lead By Rock 'N' Roll! BVM Aug 2014 #20
Off the topic timdiaz Jul 2016 #21
Of course. LWolf Jul 2016 #22
No time better than right now, LWolf Mar 2017 #23
Man's Aggression (and how to curb it) NotMyFuhrer May 2017 #24
I don't know about interest. LWolf Jan 2018 #25
War is THE issue DumpTrump20202020 Feb 2020 #26
Post removed Post removed Mar 2021 #27
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Peacemaking and Community»No more war»Reply #1