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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
26. +1 It's the US refusing to talk unless Russia accepts the Putschists in Kiev as a starting pt
Tue Mar 11, 2014, 11:50 AM
Mar 2014

and Russia refuses that as a starting point. What you said. So we're stuck. Some diplomacy.

March 11, 2014 in Nation/World
Russia, rejecting U.S. proposal, will offer own Ukraine crisis plan


KIEV, Ukraine – Russia said Monday it is drafting counterproposals to a U.S. plan for a negotiated solution to the Ukraine crisis, denouncing the new Western-backed government as an unacceptable “fait accompli” and claiming that Russian-leaning parts of the country have been plunged into lawlessness.

...

In a televised briefing with President Vladimir Putin, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said proposals made by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry are “not suitable” because they take “the situation created by the coup as a starting point,” referring to the ouster of Ukraine’s pro-Kremlin president, Viktor Yanukovych.

Referring to a document he received from Kerry explaining the U.S. view of the situation in Ukraine, Lavrov said: “To be frank, it raises many questions on our side.” “Everything was stated in terms of allegedly having a conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and in terms of accepting the fait accompli,” he said.

Lavrov said Kerry delayed a visit to Moscow to discuss the situation, and Russia had decided to prepare new proposals of its own, though he did not say what they were.

But in Washington, State Department officials said that it was Russia’s refusal to discuss the American proposals that was hurting prospects for a negotiated solution – in particular, the idea of direct talks between Russian officials and those of the new Ukrainian government.

....

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/mar/11/russia-rejecting-us-proposal-will-offer-own/



Russia: Legitimizing Ukraine Coup No Place to Start
Moscow working on counterproposals for ending crisis as it rejects US framework that backs government characterized 'bandits' by ousted president
- Jon Queally, staff writer

...
The media framing around the Ukraine crisis has itself become a dominant part of the story, as Russia and the U.S. square off over their diametrically opposed narratives that are creating very real challenges when it comes to generating a workable settlement deal.

...

Taking a hard stance against the U.S. government's frame on Tuesday, former CIA analyst Melvin A. Goodman says that the U.S. media is much too pliant when it comes to accepting the White House perspective while ignoring important historical context for the Ukraine crisis. Writing at Consortium News, Goodman explains why the U.S. position is so deeply flawed:

In the Crimean crisis, President Obama seems to be unnecessarily accommodating the right-wing criticism of his administration from politicians and pundits instead of finding a diplomatic solution to the current imbroglio. If the United States offered guarantees against the further expansion of NATO and invited Russia to take part in a multilateral economic aid program for beleaguered Ukraine, then it is possible that President Vladimir Putin would find a way to lower the Russian military presence in the Crimea.

In the meantime, the U.S. reliance on modest military steps, travel bans and economic sanctions will not bring any favorable change to the situation on the ground in Crimea. These steps will only worsen the crisis in the Ukraine and ensure that the United States and Russia cannot discuss important geopolitical matters on arms control and disarmament, nonproliferation and counter-terrorism, which finds them essentially in agreement.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/03/11-0






Deeds to property and real estate ownership on the Crimean peninsula issued by the Ukrainian government will be reissued for free, Pri
I am beginning to think that Kerry is as bad as Condi Rice. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #1
he's not much of a diplomat, to be sure Demeter Mar 2014 #2
Agreed. Refusing to talk is crazy, with one exception. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #3
Kerry is NOT refusing to talk - he in fact spoke with Lavrov this morning karynnj Mar 2014 #49
Of course its the Administration melm00se Mar 2014 #9
From US accounts it was the administration - and it is not refusing anything other than Kerry karynnj Mar 2014 #18
thanks for this. MBS Mar 2014 #57
read the rest of the article! MBS Mar 2014 #6
So, now we have preconditions before we talk? ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #7
Obama has had at least 2 phone calls directly with Putin in the past week. phleshdef Mar 2014 #30
Diplomacy and negotiations are delicate things. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #34
No, it really is just utter shit. phleshdef Mar 2014 #35
time for an ignore, before I say something I regret. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #43
Ignore is for the soft. phleshdef Mar 2014 #47
Yes, you're getting burnt tabasco Mar 2014 #82
Fuck Putin - he's occupied Crimea with troops, and the USA has no obligataion to dance to his tune muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #73
Kerry is trying to get them to recognize the coup government. bemildred Mar 2014 #17
"coup government?" geek tragedy Mar 2014 #20
Coup government. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #21
when did the coup occur? nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #22
Have a nice day. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #23
i hope you mean that nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #25
I'll tell you what, I'll agree they are both coups. bemildred Mar 2014 #41
here's the Aljazeera time line....please point out the "coup" part. EX500rider Mar 2014 #84
+1 It's the US refusing to talk unless Russia accepts the Putschists in Kiev as a starting pt Catherina Mar 2014 #26
Yes. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #27
To me, talk is always good, even if it gets nowhere. It can serve as a catharsis IMO. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2014 #28
+1 n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #31
FWIW...I agree with you... Alameda Mar 2014 #80
Make that two. I am so grateful SOS Kerry is involved... YvonneCa Mar 2014 #86
I would think their results would inform them of the situation. bemildred Mar 2014 #15
Kerry is SOS, not president. Beacool Mar 2014 #36
then we have a larger problem. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #44
I used to read these kinds of criticisms about Hillary too. Beacool Mar 2014 #53
Hillary was such an improvement over Condi, that I still find it hard to gauge ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #56
I think that she did the best she could with the tools she had Beacool Mar 2014 #60
How can you criticize a good Democrat like John Kerry? Dem4ever27 Mar 2014 #39
+ 1000 n/t MBS Mar 2014 #55
Thank you ! I couldn't agree more. While... YvonneCa Mar 2014 #87
Well, after you've delivered a proposal... Orsino Mar 2014 #48
Ive read several accounts of this, and it is not a proposal. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #54
Demands are also diplomacy. Orsino Mar 2014 #63
A position not worthy of a child in kindergarten, much less a SS. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #4
american foriegn policy is just as ridiculous under obama as any other KG Mar 2014 #5
US foreign policy hasn't changed since Truman Scootaloo Mar 2014 #8
And the Meddling in Latin America, especially Venezuela Demeter Mar 2014 #11
you really think Obama wakes up in the morning worrying about geek tragedy Mar 2014 #24
Who are those guys with the beards? Reminds me of DFW. Not a lot, just a little. freshwest Mar 2014 #37
+1 davidpdx Mar 2014 #52
Is that at all what I said? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #67
you said the entire point of US foreign policy is to combat leftism geek tragedy Mar 2014 #68
But all to the same effect, Geek Scootaloo Mar 2014 #74
"we supported Mubarak in Egypt all the way down" geek tragedy Mar 2014 #76
Yes, it's a hypothetical. i wanted your opinion Scootaloo Mar 2014 #77
countries with giant deposits of energy get treated differently by everyone geek tragedy Mar 2014 #79
Which is really absurd. Truman's goal was containing the Soviet Union. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #69
What was the US policy towards Venezuela these last two decades? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #75
US and VN governents clearly despise each other. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #78
Truman's foreign policy ended the war with Japan. Dem4ever27 Mar 2014 #42
Names change, but really the core of it is SOS IMO. n/t RKP5637 Mar 2014 #29
President Obama got us out of Iraq. Dem4ever27 Mar 2014 #40
Technically, Obama was following the SOFA that Bush agreed to. arcane1 Mar 2014 #46
the bush admin. already negotiated the exit (SOFA). KG Mar 2014 #81
The coup government is illegitimate. denverbill Mar 2014 #10
All the coups you cited were paid for with CIA dollars, you know. Demeter Mar 2014 #12
Yes, I know. I'm least sure about Honduras, but the others are definite. denverbill Mar 2014 #13
I absolutely agree Yanukovych should return to office, provided that: geek tragedy Mar 2014 #16
You forget the possibility of impeachment - was removing Nixon illegal? karynnj Mar 2014 #19
Putin will just stuff the ballot boxes. He's already had armed men with lists X the homes of voters' Sunlei Mar 2014 #33
Yes, he will. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #38
Hmm, what could be the difference between the situation in Iran and Honduras.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #45
I guess nobody knows. denverbill Mar 2014 #50
No.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #51
So if a huge mob of angry teabaggers marched on Washington, denverbill Mar 2014 #58
Except the Maidan protests weren't merely a right-wing protest movement. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #59
Democracies are supposed to follow laws. denverbill Mar 2014 #64
You're really questioning (a) whether Yanukovyh--the proud owner geek tragedy Mar 2014 #70
Oh my. You're right. He's been accused by you so he's guilty. denverbill Mar 2014 #83
Your efforts to make him out to be the victim are rather hilarious. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #85
Nothing good can come of this... Steviehh Mar 2014 #14
Putin must have been in on the old gov. Viktor Yanukovych & gang embezzling. Sunlei Mar 2014 #32
Russian radio interview with US ambassador to Ukraine MBS Mar 2014 #61
Another Skull and Bones 1%er claiming to speak for we, the people. And Putin is equally rotten. nt bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #62
Trifecta! Nihil Mar 2014 #88
If only the Olympics weren't over, we could boycott them marshall Mar 2014 #65
Did Putin even offer a meeting? I don't find that anywhere. eom Purveyor Mar 2014 #66
If it wasn't offered dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #71
A bit of 'grandstanding', indeed. eom Purveyor Mar 2014 #72
A good decision. Do not give Putin a stage for his invasion. Ask him how much of the embezzled Sunlei Mar 2014 #89
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