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karynnj

(59,504 posts)
80. Manning did almost the opposite of what Berger did.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 11:28 AM
Mar 2015

Manning leaked State Department cables indiscriminately (his release of the Iraq video was another thing, but that could have been defended in the court of public opinion.)

Berger was accused of removing documents from the archive (which he claimed were just copies that would be destroyed.) In a sense, where Manning was giving the world access to everything he could, Berger and Clinton POTENTIALLY could be removing things from the historical record.

I agree that the rules shouldn't differ from one person to another, but the three cases are all different - even if described in the worst way:
- Manning leaked secret material
- Berger removed material that was at an archive
- Clinton created a situation where AFTER EVENTS PLAYED OUT she was able to determine what emails sent to foreign leaders and others not in the State Department she would send in to the SD.

Note that it almost takes a conspiracy theory mindset to get what Clinton did to raise anywhere near to where Berger was. However, what this does is to open the possibility that she hid something (unspecified) and the SD really can't defend her on that.

The worst way to look at this is that from the moment she became SoS, she wanted to retain control of her email. At that point, there was nothing to hide as she was starting new. It does seem that the then law did not preclude using private email, but it did include the provision to retain all work emails and that was not done until the State Department privately requested that she give them the emails. This allowed the Clinton people to sift through the emails to separate the work from the private. Even if she would have created a private just for work email -- it would be easier to defend.

I am not a lawyer, but I doubt there are any legal problems. Politically I do think this creates some problems and only time will tell how significant they are. Two observations neither clear in impact-

1) This could give undeserved credence to the Benghazi nonsense or any other foreign policy issue where they could say damning emails are missing.

2) It reopens the Hillary lack of transparency meme that stretches back to her being the one angriest about Whitewater questions, her lack of responsiveness in producing her Rose Law firm records etc. In both those situations, the unwillingness to at least appear open led to a huge amount of bad PR --- not completely corrected when she was not shown to have done anything wrong when the records ultimately were produced.

3) The Republicans might use this to suggest that she was not prudent on national security as the government server would have been less subject to hacking. Here, the fact that she headed the State Department makes this unlike most other positions.


The argument could be made that as the SD said, Kerry is the first SoS to have immediately set up a government id and used it for his work. Hillary is also likely not the only cabinet head to have used her own email rather than the government one. This would have been more acceptable had she put a process in place - like at the end of every year, the emails were archived.

Out of tens of thousands of emails, only 55 000 were job related? Interesting. merrily Mar 2015 #1
But 55,000 *is* tens of thousands starroute Mar 2015 #29
It was a big deal here when the Bush administration was caught using personal email addresses. arcane1 Mar 2015 #2
Yes, but that's VERY different. merrily Mar 2015 #5
Seems as if there are a lot of things that were a big deal when they were done by the Bush admin ... markpkessinger Mar 2015 #56
OF COURSE THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG DEAL! cynzke Mar 2015 #73
Might have been what they did with them. aquart Mar 2015 #57
Everyone in the Bush administration had YAHOO accounts. They don't have ANY of that stuff. MADem Mar 2015 #3
Her people? What? She never heard about the Bush thing or the law? merrily Mar 2015 #4
The Clintons are above the law, everybody knows that krawhitham Mar 2015 #6
Yup yup, nothing to see here - be a good Democrat now and move along. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2015 #38
Palin did this and we crucified her. Clinton doesn't roguevalley Mar 2015 #47
I don't think this will make her toast. merrily Mar 2015 #50
I don't know about that brush Mar 2015 #61
Republicans and media hammered Benghazi without affecting either her desire to run or her anointing. merrily Mar 2015 #71
I'm definitely open to others throwing their hats in the ring. brush Mar 2015 #77
Did you happen to read the story at the link? merrily Mar 2015 #83
I did read it but went back . . . brush Mar 2015 #97
Wasn't it an article in which Schumer was saying Democratic primaries are undesirable? Only his pic? merrily Mar 2015 #98
Yeah, that was the one brush Mar 2015 #99
Really?? I didn't see any slide show of pics of Dem Presidential hopefuls at that link. merrily Mar 2015 #100
There's a link in the middle of the copy to click on. nt brush Mar 2015 #104
And there's the problem. How much leeway will the press give her as more of this happens? 7962 Mar 2015 #68
If she remains the anointed, she will be the nominee regardless of what the press says because merrily Mar 2015 #87
isn't that the truth, merrily roguevalley Mar 2015 #91
The GOP will make a big deal, but it will just look like politics to the general public 7962 Mar 2015 #90
The media has a way of riling up the general public, esp. rw radio and it's internet counterparts. merrily Mar 2015 #94
So sick of this shady crap no matter who does it. Sheelanagig Mar 2015 #7
Well, when you're putting pressure on the Haitian government OnyxCollie Mar 2015 #8
+1 whereisjustice Mar 2015 #40
Isn't that how they nailed Petraeus? leveymg Mar 2015 #9
NASA? Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #23
Damn auto correct. NSA it is. leveymg Mar 2015 #48
Payola will be the bigger issue... nt quadrature Mar 2015 #10
i hope it irritates the right into an eye-bulging spittle-flying tic-riddled frenzy Romeo.lima333 Mar 2015 #11
This is what the Walker John Doe was about. He set up a private router system in his office. postulater Mar 2015 #12
So you're assuming criminal activity? uberblonde Mar 2015 #32
You know, violating the "rules of the job" is at least unethical (corrupt) Demeter Mar 2015 #64
Scott Wankers activities were all on persoonal E-Mails warrant46 Mar 2015 #75
Has it occurred to anyone.. uberblonde Mar 2015 #13
Yes, the Obama administration knew about it. They would have to, in order TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #14
One reporter said his Chuck Hagel FOIA request was kicked back. uberblonde Mar 2015 #31
Then they all need to figure out why, and look into it. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #35
The POTUS' gov't email account CANDO Mar 2015 #17
If she needs a Presidential pardon, she'll probably get one. merrily Mar 2015 #51
.... DeSwiss Mar 2015 #45
Just because a President agrees with something, or doesn't raise objection Demeter Mar 2015 #65
More tempests, more teapots...better put in another order. Fred Sanders Mar 2015 #15
Put a fork in her political career... CANDO Mar 2015 #16
How do you conduct State Dept. business on non-government, unsecured TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #18
I don't know but Lawrence O seems to think that this is big. jwirr Mar 2015 #19
Yeah, I'm watching Lawrence also. CANDO Mar 2015 #21
No offense... uberblonde Mar 2015 #33
My, my, my what a quick little evidence-free bunny of condemnation you are. aquart Mar 2015 #58
My my my.... CANDO Mar 2015 #70
"Innocent until proven guilty" here on DU? Oh please Lurks Often Mar 2015 #72
Time to get someone else to run Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2015 #85
Something is off ... sunnystarr Mar 2015 #20
Apparently HRC used private acct exclusively. CANDO Mar 2015 #22
WHEN did the "current regulations" go into effect? aquart Mar 2015 #59
2 years after she left thelordofhell Mar 2015 #62
BS - the gov't email for official biz requirement predates the Bush Admin. It's a law. leveymg Mar 2015 #76
The law did not get updated to include e-mails until after Clinton left thelordofhell Mar 2015 #82
The 1950 Act has been interpreted to include machine readable messages since the 1970s. leveymg Mar 2015 #86
The statute has covered federal records since the 1950s. The definition was probably broad enough merrily Mar 2015 #88
Thanks. leveymg Mar 2015 #92
You are welcome. merrily Mar 2015 #95
Who thought this was a good idea? nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #24
Clearly... uberblonde Mar 2015 #34
We don't need this ripcord Mar 2015 #25
I want to wait to hear more before making a judgement but you can see the glee of some. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #26
Mind you, she has not been my favorite sadoldgirl Mar 2015 #27
Senators all have official emails. Reps, too. merrily Mar 2015 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Mar 2015 #28
"I was expecting it to be [email protected]" CrispyQ Mar 2015 #79
You care about this if Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #30
Please note. uberblonde Mar 2015 #36
Didn't give his stupidity a second thought. That was his problem with his constituents. Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #37
Actually, there was a lot of outrage from Democrats when similar news about Bushco hit. Palin, too. merrily Mar 2015 #53
The latest is that the law governing this... uberblonde Mar 2015 #39
Doubtful. Official emails = federal record. The Federal Records Act was signed in 1950. merrily Mar 2015 #54
this is not fatal DonCoquixote Mar 2015 #41
She is a lawyer and I am sure new federal hires get notice of this. merrily Mar 2015 #55
16 Benghazi hearings Nuh Uh Mar 2015 #42
That's because they all use private email. apnu Mar 2015 #69
What really chaps my ass is the whole "One rule for thee and another for me" Big_Mike Mar 2015 #43
Manning did almost the opposite of what Berger did. karynnj Mar 2015 #80
You people just don't understand! DeSwiss Mar 2015 #44
That's a funny graphic. merrily Mar 2015 #60
Oh, man, thats gonna piss off a few folks!! 7962 Mar 2015 #93
You win the US Internet! MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #109
This went on for years. Mz Pip Mar 2015 #46
I think it would be proper to ask if it's the Obama administration who prefers TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #49
Gee, a warmongering corporate schill fails to comply Android3.14 Mar 2015 #63
Well said. CrispyQ Mar 2015 #81
You did know those weren't the laws in place when she was in office? brooklynite Mar 2015 #89
Do you know when someone is manipulating you? Android3.14 Mar 2015 #96
Yes and no. The law was in place since 1950 (actually much, much earlier, but we are now working merrily Mar 2015 #108
Benghazi, Benghazi!! Sancho Mar 2015 #66
moring joe hasbeen talking most of the hour about this. Many riversedge Mar 2015 #67
This looks bad for her, State Dept IT, and the administration KeepItReal Mar 2015 #74
For a Candidate in waiting this has the appearance of some serious baggage. Ford_Prefect Mar 2015 #78
We're on track to get a seriously, seriously flawed candidate Adenoid_Hynkel Mar 2015 #84
Daily Beast proves this story is false. See links below. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2015 #101
except for the facts set out by a state dept employee: elleng Mar 2015 #102
HRC broke No Laws fredamae Mar 2015 #103
Wrong Android3.14 Mar 2015 #105
Do we know they were Not fredamae Mar 2015 #106
will the 55K emails have a 'sequence' number ? ...nt quadrature Mar 2015 #107
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