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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
53. Please read this good short article about the real Luddites ...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:02 AM
Jun 2012

Ideologically they were closer to Bernie Sanders than John Zerzan.

The Luddites were working class people who rose up against inhuman conditions of labor. They broke machines to effect labor stoppages at a time when strikes were not just illegal, but a cause for military massacres on domestic soil. It shows the continuing power of capitalist ideology today that everyone knows the name but most don't know the story. The Luddites were brave and innovative pioneers of the modern workers movement. If we had not been collectively misled about our history, today's 99 percent would be identifying more closely with them than with most of the aristocratic, slave-holding "founding fathers." Instead people who sacrificed their lives in the struggle for dignity and human rights are defamed as mindless barbarians attacking "progress" and "technology." It's no different than when the teachers and firefighters and union workers of Wisconsin are called thugs for defending their livelihoods against attack.


What the Luddites Really Fought Against
The label now has many meanings, but when the group protested 200 years ago, technology wasn't really the enemy


* By Richard Conniff
* Smithsonian magazine, March 2011


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/What-the-Luddites-Really-Fought-Against.html#ixzz1xmP1Ppc1

(snip)

Despite their modern reputation, the original Luddites were neither opposed to technology nor inept at using it. Many were highly skilled machine operators in the textile industry. Nor was the technology they attacked particularly new. Moreover, the idea of smashing machines as a form of industrial protest did not begin or end with them. In truth, the secret of their enduring reputation depends less on what they did than on the name under which they did it. You could say they were good at branding.

The Luddite disturbances started in circumstances at least superficially similar to our own. British working families at the start of the 19th century were enduring economic upheaval and widespread unemployment. A seemingly endless war against Napoleon’s France had brought “the hard pinch of poverty,” wrote Yorkshire historian Frank Peel, to homes “where it had hitherto been a stranger.” Food was scarce and rapidly becoming more costly. Then, on March 11, 1811, in Nottingham, a textile manufacturing center, British troops broke up a crowd of protesters demanding more work and better wages. That night, angry workers smashed textile machinery in a nearby village. Similar attacks occurred nightly at first, then sporadically, and then in waves, eventually spreading across a 70-mile swath of northern England from Loughborough in the south to Wakefield in the north. Fearing a national movement, the government soon positioned thousands of soldiers to defend factories. Parliament passed a measure to make machine-breaking a capital offense.

But the Luddites were neither as organized nor as dangerous as authorities believed. They set some factories on fire, but mainly they confined themselves to breaking machines. In truth, they inflicted less violence than they encountered. In one of the bloodiest incidents, in April 1812, some 2,000 protesters mobbed a mill near Manchester. The owner ordered his men to fire into the crowd, killing at least 3 and wounding 18. Soldiers killed at least 5 more the next day. Earlier that month, a crowd of about 150 protesters had exchanged gunfire with the defenders of a mill in Yorkshire, and two Luddites died. Soon, Luddites there retaliated by killing a mill owner, who in the thick of the protests had supposedly boasted that he would ride up to his britches in Luddite blood. Three Luddites were hanged for the murder; other courts, often under political pressure, sent many more to the gallows or to exile in Australia before the last such disturbance, in 1816.

(snip)

As the Industrial Revolution began, workers naturally worried about being displaced by increasingly efficient machines. But the Luddites themselves “were totally fine with machines,” says Kevin Binfield, editor of the 2004 collection Writings of the Luddites. They confined their attacks to manufacturers who used machines in what they called “a fraudulent and deceitful manner” to get around standard labor practices. “They just wanted machines that made high-quality goods,” says Binfield, “and they wanted these machines to be run by workers who had gone through an apprenticeship and got paid decent wages. Those were their only concerns.”
Facebook is not communication technology. It is the application of technology Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #1
+1 Aerows Jun 2012 #2
+1 freshwest Jun 2012 #7
what do you mean consumer control over technology? snooper2 Jun 2012 #22
I think the person I responded to understood what I was talking about. n/t freshwest Jun 2012 #27
can you explain it to the rest of the World snooper2 Jun 2012 #29
I've been a network engineer for a long time now DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2012 #41
Okay, you explain it then "consumer control over technology" snooper2 Jun 2012 #42
We desperately need some laws to deal with this shit. A person should be the clear and sole owner Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #30
There have been people who have demanded payment when their personal data is sold. freshwest Jun 2012 #33
Payment for when personal is sold? EXCELLENT IDEA! Zalatix Jun 2012 #38
I think this very thing about so many ideas LanternWaste Jun 2012 #11
Nearly 900 million users are 'sucked in', then. randome Jun 2012 #3
take a look at religion snooper2 Jun 2012 #23
P.T. Barnum died a very rich man, and the population has exploded, n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #28
+1000!!! Zalatix Jun 2012 #37
Large numbers of people are never, ever wrong! JackRiddler Jun 2012 #82
Facebook is communication technology that has been applied to the exploitation RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #4
Read your agreement. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #31
Good comment. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #46
Thank you. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #48
Luddites are the most unfairly defamed group in history. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #49
No I didn't. I can certainly understand that now that you've told me, but I was lead to believe Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #51
Please read this good short article about the real Luddites ... JackRiddler Jun 2012 #53
When people tell me they think Chariots of the Gods is a bad book cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #5
C ot G was a book, not a revolution in the sharing of print media. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #6
you've got this whole thing wrapped up it looks like ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #8
Hahahaha! RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #13
At What Point Ought This Thread Have Frozen Forever? ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #16
Von Daniken lifted most of his ideas right out of Morning of the Magicians aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2012 #77
I dunno... Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #9
Smoke signals and drumming. hobbit709 Jun 2012 #10
Why do Facebookers need to be validated by EVERYONE in the universe to be happy? Romulox Jun 2012 #12
That is not my assertion at all. This isn't about validation, it is about criticising the often RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #21
The need to not be criticized isn't much different from the need for validation, imo. Romulox Jun 2012 #24
Sorry, again, I am criticizing the critiques as irrational and do not "need" to not be criticized RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #25
The Facebook cult is feeling wounded because the market didn't validate the IPO price. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #58
Narcissistic Personality Disorder isn't a business plan, is it? That's what FB is built upon. Romulox Jun 2012 #62
While you may have encountered people who find "non-participation" is threatening to them somehow, RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #66
Nonsense. No one is criticizing others' non-participation; by all means, stand out of the way. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #65
No one except all the people who get defensive about it.. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #81
No; you really must be more subtle and granular in your reading. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #89
Give it up already. It's not my comprehension, it's your condescension. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #104
There is little in this post worthy of responding to, but the accusatory tone makes it difficult RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #109
Sir, I have my satisfaction. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #110
Last word! RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #113
For the same reason you're responding to allegations that haven't been made. Posteritatis Jun 2012 #106
I don't hate Facebook because I object to the advance of communications technology. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #14
Ok, so you fall into the irrational hatred category, but please realize RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #19
Okay then count me in the "irrational hatred" category if that's all it takes. Zalatix Jun 2012 #36
I did explain why it was irrational. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #43
You offered what you believe was an explanation. Zalatix Jun 2012 #45
Well, if one is concerned about something they have no reason to be concerned with RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #54
You defined a perfectly rational post as irrational hatred. Zalatix Jun 2012 #74
What, I don't get a quote!? Dang! hahaha. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #80
That was some seriously tortured logic. Zalatix Jun 2012 #83
I have explained twice why it was an irrational statement generated by specious concerns. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #91
And your explanation is still wrong. Zalatix Jun 2012 #93
I am comfortable with your assessment, my word choices, and their implications. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #94
You stay comfortable with your deconstructed arguments, and have a nice day! Zalatix Jun 2012 #95
You too. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #97
I'm sorry, your "assessment" is full of shit and so are you. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #111
Calling people "banal and mindless" may seem like nothing to you, but RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #112
Most of Facebook IS banal and mindless. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #114
Another prime example of Sturgeon's Law. hobbit709 Jun 2012 #115
No one is expecting an "extreme introvert" to 'like' social media. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #116
Yeah. I hate Facebook because it is a step back in communications technology. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #108
or, you could just use it to chat.. all but 3 of the ppl i talked to using AIM ditched it dionysus Jun 2012 #117
As my father says in explaining why he refuses to have a phone, "It coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #15
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #17
one can hate facebook and not think communications technology should have stopped developing fishwax Jun 2012 #18
Don't worry your face to face will be coming back soon... snooper2 Jun 2012 #20
I am very excited about where technology is bringing us in this regard. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #26
The Haves and the Have-Nots ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #32
All my stuff has an on/off switch. FarCenter Jun 2012 #34
Yes, but how do you know that 'off' really means 'off'? randome Jun 2012 #40
That's what aluminum foil is for... FarCenter Jun 2012 #44
Only a Luddite would want a true 'off' switch! Zalatix Jun 2012 #52
It should never stop developing. Zalatix Jun 2012 #35
The word "mandatory" belies your paranoia. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #57
Your 'head out of the sand' approach to things is downright hilarious. Zalatix Jun 2012 #61
McLuhan was often criticized for not criticizing the "inherent evils" of TV RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #63
Back then, TV didn't watch you. Zalatix Jun 2012 #67
I'm sorry you got that impression. While I am not happy with the privacy issues surrounding TV and RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #68
But you asked 'at what point should this technology be frozen". Zalatix Jun 2012 #72
So no cameras of any kind, then? Your position regresses into futility quickly. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #73
And your point regresses into a Corporate surveillance state. Zalatix Jun 2012 #76
I definitely think it is pretty cool, but it is just uploaded pictures, really. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #78
FYI Google street view is totally involuntary. Which presents another problem. Zalatix Jun 2012 #84
What do you propose be done about it? Shall the technology be forbidden until then? RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #87
I propose we do what the Department of Defense did. Zalatix Jun 2012 #88
I do not use the word 'Luddite'. The DoD has a different need for privacy than an average citizen, RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #90
The DoD has a different need for privacy than an average citizen HAHAHAHAHAH Zalatix Jun 2012 #92
I certainly advocate for privacy, and even can see your point about Google. Perhaps the process RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #96
Thing is, nobody said Facebook should be forbidden. Zalatix Jun 2012 #98
No, of course not. That would be easy to dispute were it said. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #99
It would seem that your OP was much ado about nothing. Zalatix Jun 2012 #100
I don't know. I personally find irrational, arbitrary lines-in-the-sand regarding technology RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #101
Then I hope you're comfortable with chasing imaginary boogeymen! Have a nice day! Zalatix Jun 2012 #102
You too. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #103
Why are you using a "cutting edge thinker" from 50 years ago? Tom Ripley Jun 2012 #71
Did I call him "cutting edge"? Anyway, McLuhans books and lectures are providing many relevant RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #75
When Lauren Bacall asked Bogart if he knew how to whistle NoPasaran Jun 2012 #39
At what point should you stop pumping this flailing stock? JackRiddler Jun 2012 #47
I have no vested interest in facebook outside of its value as a communication technology. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #55
isn't this like saying one opposes Television Technology because they think American idol or some JI7 Jun 2012 #50
No, it is more like saying one opposes television technology because RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #56
I like electricity, but that doesn't mean that I think the electric chair was a wonderful thing Tom Ripley Jun 2012 #59
Electricity is a form of energy and an electric chair is a tool. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #64
It is more analogous than your "logic", and obviously far more succinct Tom Ripley Jun 2012 #70
Sorry, I compared a revolution in comm tech to other revolutions of comm tech. RadiationTherapy Jun 2012 #79
^^^^ Sense. That response made none. Zalatix Jun 2012 #107
Next year 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #60
Big Black dial phones sarisataka Jun 2012 #69
Hand gestures JHB Jun 2012 #85
Communications Advancement should have stopped at porcinaalbastrucaine Jun 2012 #86
Obviously it shop have stopped at the first thing I'm personally unfamiliar with. Posteritatis Jun 2012 #105
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