Reply #68

In the discussion thread: Why does Ralph Nader seem to target liberal Democrats for a primary challenge? [View all]

Mon Dec 12, 2011, 12:43 PM

phleshdef (8,288 posts)

68. Like I said, its not up to you. You can tell yourself white means black if you'd like.

Or that up means down. You are still wrong and living outside of the realm of reality.

The only thing you get to do is lie to yourself about what something means in order to support your desire to safely live in an alternate reality. You still don't get to decide what it actually means. It means what it means, whether you like it or not.

And yes, the healthcare bill is liberal in just about every sense of the word... the downsides of the mandate do not come close to cancelling out the upsides of everything else in the 2000 page bill. If you think that it does, then I suggest math classes.

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95 replies	Author	Time	Post
Why does Ralph Nader seem to target liberal Democrats for a primary challenge? [View all]	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	OP
Up to?? He's only feeding his attention monkey.	comipinko	Dec 2011	#1
Easier for him to peel those off than a few conservative Republicans. nt	greyl	Dec 2011	#2
He isn't up to anything.	HappyMe	Dec 2011	#3
Desperate man in need of attention	JNelson6563	Dec 2011	#4
Do you consider President Obama a liberal Democrat?	Scuba	Dec 2011	#5
Yes, I do.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#6
Yeah, but it's not about finding one person left or right of the President...	Scuba	Dec 2011	#7
Why do you think that he's a moderate Republican, if he's a Democrat?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#8
Because, in my world, Democrats hold true to Democratic values....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#9
Which registered moderate Republican has positions that are just like President Obama's?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#12
Do you know any liberal Democrats who aren't willing to fight for Medicare for All? Who ...	Scuba	Dec 2011	#14
But what moderate Republican is he like?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#15
The actions he has taken fit him neatly into my definition of "moderate Republican".....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#16
Is there another moderate Republican who is like him?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#18
You're confusing being a Republican or Democrat with acting like one. n/t	Scuba	Dec 2011	#20
Which moderate Republican is President Obama acting like?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#21
Barry Goldwater. n/t	Scuba	Dec 2011	#22
What "states rights" positions does Barack Obama support?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#23
What "liberal Democrat" positions does President Obama support?	Scuba	Dec 2011	#24
I saw this really good list of lists.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#25
This is the one I usually use when defending him, which is often....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#26
I think that the liberal Democrats have decided that they like him.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#27
The like him a lot more than the alternatives, that's for sure....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#28
I am and always have been a liberal. I like him better than any Republican but..	Little Star	Dec 2011	#30
He says Civil Rights should be up to the States	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2011	#58
He doesn't because he is Republican regular ala Bob Dole, Condeleeza Rice, Poppy Bush,	TheKentuckian	Dec 2011	#42
I believe he is speaking historically	kenfrequed	Dec 2011	#75
Liberalism is not defined by one issue. And you don't get to define the standards for what...	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#66
Sorry, but a healthcare plan that requires Americans to purchase....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#67
Like I said, its not up to you. You can tell yourself white means black if you'd like.	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#68
And you can tell yourself that Obama is a liberal, but he's not. n /t	Scuba	Dec 2011	#69
The vast majority of Americans disagree with you on that and likely as does he.	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#70
You're right of course. I'm afraid I'm too old school....	Scuba	Dec 2011	#71
Doing things your way would mean rejecting unemployment extensions and letting Medicare be killed...	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#72
You know nothing of what I think or care about. n/t	Scuba	Dec 2011	#73
The idea of medicare being killed under its own weight is absurd	kenfrequed	Dec 2011	#76
No, its not absurd. Its math. Though I think we both agree on the right solution.	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#78
I noticed	kenfrequed	Dec 2011	#82
"Profit" is not illegal. And I don't think the American public is ideologically ready to make it so.	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#84
Strawman	kenfrequed	Dec 2011	#85
"The cases where public-private mixes function are rather tightly regulated markets" = Exactly...	phleshdef	Dec 2011	#86
Because he is to the right of Richard Nixon.	ozone_man	Dec 2011	#47
That wouldn't make him a Republican, though.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#52
Correct by modern definition.	ozone_man	Dec 2011	#88
Erm, a post-partisan?	joshcryer	Dec 2011	#53
I think so. n/t	ozone_man	Dec 2011	#89
Not only do you consider the president a liberal, but so do the majority of Americans	Number23	Dec 2011	#79
I'm not sure that he does...	freshwest	Dec 2011	#10
man aint that the truth	SwampG8r	Dec 2011	#54
In 2008 he targeted a centrist Democrat who has proven to be a...centrist Democrat.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Dec 2011	#11
My impression was that Ralph Nader was going to support a progressive Democrat.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#13
So? If none appear, should he support a centrist?	Tierra_y_Libertad	Dec 2011	#17
He can support who he wants to.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#19
and how	DonCoquixote	Dec 2011	#31
Why would I want to get mushy independents to vote for a mushy centrist?	Tierra_y_Libertad	Dec 2011	#48
You miss the question	DonCoquixote	Dec 2011	#49
You miss the point. I don't vote for centrists of either of the establishment parties.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Dec 2011	#56
Florida was decided	DonCoquixote	Dec 2011	#91
Seriously, who knows?	Rex	Dec 2011	#29
I believe the problem is with your definition of "Liberal Democrat".	Edweird	Dec 2011	#32
It's not mine, it's Gallup's.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#34
Ok, soooo what's the question again?	Edweird	Dec 2011	#35
Ralph Nader want to put up a primary challenger who appeals to liberal Democrats.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#38
Again, we're back to the definition of "Liberal Democrat".	Edweird	Dec 2011	#39
Welcome to DU3...sigh. nt	Romulox	Dec 2011	#33
Because he is a Republican. n/t	BlueToTheBone	Dec 2011	#36
Obama is a center-right dem	themadstork	Dec 2011	#37
Because he saw his shadow as we enter the next election season.	JoePhilly	Dec 2011	#40
He just received the income reports from the last quarter.	Ikonoklast	Dec 2011	#55
Obama is not a liberal Democrat.	Beacool	Dec 2011	#41
neither was Hillary	DonCoquixote	Dec 2011	#50
If Nader runs, GOP election officials can siphon more votes from the Dem to him	McCamy Taylor	Dec 2011	#43
Funny how Grover gets around	DonCoquixote	Dec 2011	#51
How can he challenge in a primary?	mmonk	Dec 2011	#44
Your definition of "Liberal Democrat" is busted.	Odin2005	Dec 2011	#45
What is my definition of "liberal Democrat"?	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#46
You say the President is 'liberal' yet he opposes equal rights	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2011	#57
What minorities are you thinking of?	brooklynite	Dec 2011	#59
If you have to ask that question, man.....	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2011	#61
That's what I thought you meant, but I wanted to be sure...	brooklynite	Dec 2011	#74
The original post is about Nader targeting liberal Democratic voters.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#62
You're saying this to defend Nader? Nader who called the fight for gay rights "Gonad politics?!?!"	stevenleser	Dec 2011	#94
Are there other minority groups you think one can	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2011	#60
What I always say	libodem	Dec 2011	#63
Obama isn't a liberal because he supports equal rights to do conservative things, not liberal things	saras	Dec 2011	#64
I clarified the original post.	LoZoccolo	Dec 2011	#65
I'll take because he's a narcissistic douchebag for $1000, Alex.	11 Bravo	Dec 2011	#77
I think Nader, as always, is concerned about the direction of the country	slay	Dec 2011	#80
he's a spoiler	pitohui	Dec 2011	#81
If by 'paying him under the table'	kenfrequed	Dec 2011	#83
Obama is NOW a liberal democrat?!?!?!? Just in time for the election, right	fascisthunter	Dec 2011	#87
Since 'the majority of liberal Dems support Obama', I assume you'll blame centrists if he loses?	Marr	Dec 2011	#90
Because his ideas are liberal!	Uranus Needs Men	Dec 2011	#92
Because the Republicans pay him to challenge Democrats?	AtomicKitten	Dec 2011	#93
Ooh more Nader. Thanks, if it weren't for you I'd forget he was alive...	SomethingFishy	Dec 2011	#95

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