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Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)

41. Correlation does not always equal causation

Reply to swhisper1 (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 01:13 PM

Jun 2016

but it is a pscyh study. They are happy they actually got to have a p value.

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Risks of Harm from Spanking Confirmed by Analysis of Five Decades of Research [View all] Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 OP

not really, discipline is personal preference and alot of huffy arguing not worth my time swhisper1 Jun 2016 #1

How is it personal preference when harm is demonstrated? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #14

Not just risk of harm but counterproductive Major Nikon Jun 2016 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #38

The evidence suggests that it would be counterproductive, are you saying its actually effective.... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #87

True, but why risk it at all, particularly since its counterproductive... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #90

This is just bizarre Major Nikon Jun 2016 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #88

The OP article is not about discipline but about harming children. merrily Jun 2016 #7

That's like saying molesting your little daughter is just personal preference. jtuck004 Jun 2016 #18

+1, and the lack of empathy or even progressive solutions to a child who's threatening and defiant uponit7771 Jun 2016 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #26

Spanking = beating?!?! I agree with the poster, there's much huffing about uponit7771 Jun 2016 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #28

I agree, hitting anyone TO cause pain isnt productive.. spanking a child with the intentions and the uponit7771 Jun 2016 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #34

Ah, didn't read the non-consensual so no... its not ok to hit anyone and we agree that one size does uponit7771 Jun 2016 #37

So basically you are disregarding the study because it contradicts your preconceived notions... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #51

No, I'm not disregarding the data at all Just HOF hyperbole and my way great your way sucks mentali uponit7771 Jun 2016 #69

You are exactly correct. Android3.14 Jun 2016 #52

RIGHT!! And SOMETIMES... there needs to be an instant negative reaction and it doesn't have uponit7771 Jun 2016 #70

No, it obviously IS about one person controlling another muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #113

Some advice. Android3.14 Jun 2016 #119

Bringing up a child is not a 'business', it's a responsibility muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #54

A parent that needs to. Also teenager that is 14 and 6'2 and 200 lbs isn't a man at all... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #71

Who the fuck spanks teenagers at all? That's definitely not normal. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #77

Again, a parent that needs to... what is your perspective of what a spanking is? tia uponit7771 Jun 2016 #81

No, even if I conceded that spanking is something parents should be allowed to do, if they are... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #85

I know, I couldn't even fathom trying to get a teenager to cooperate with a spanking... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #89

See...this is exactly what I mean right here...perfect example uponit7771 Jun 2016 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #94

Not in front of the cops it's not, they'll oversee and make sure its not taking uponit7771 Jun 2016 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #84

So you think you would get away with hitting your mother back in most uponit7771 Jun 2016 #96

You know, when you have to lie to defend your argument, you lost that argument. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #103

Could you link and quote were they did outline an escalated progressive action process then... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #107

Its behind a paywall, if you want to pay the 12 bucks, read it yourself, otherwise stop... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #115

Holy crap R.A. Ganoush Jun 2016 #35

Correlation does not always equal causation Drahthaardogs Jun 2016 #41

Then why post in this thread. Duppers Jun 2016 #104

I don't want to encourage judgmental discussion swhisper1 Jun 2016 #105

This whole forum is about Duppers Jun 2016 #106

I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #2

When did your parents ... GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #4

My DAD spanked me about 8 times in my life. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #11

After they had spanked me approximately eight times. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #33

Precisely, don't let survivor bias cloud your thinking, the outcomes of the majority matter... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #9

The thing is laundry_queen Jun 2016 #16

Important point made in this article laundry_queen Jun 2016 #5

Yeah, its a difference in intensity, rather than one of kind. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #8

My father in law believes an adult spanking a small child IS physical abuse and he convinced me. merrily Jun 2016 #10

Your father in law is correct Brainstormy Jun 2016 #12

Thanks to my father in law, you are preaching to the choir. merrily Jun 2016 #13

That is great laundry_queen Jun 2016 #17

You may be able to raise a child less than optimally by indulging every whim instantly. merrily Jun 2016 #19

Interesting study laundry_queen Jun 2016 #20

Thank you. I am glad you went to all that trouble. merrily Jun 2016 #21

wait, so letting a kid 'run wild' as in physically abuse people and their parents, destroy property uponit7771 Jun 2016 #29

If 'giving boundaries' meant spanking, then yes. nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #63

No, spanking is part of the corrective action process that could be used but usually is the last... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #72

It's not corrective action, it's abuse laundry_queen Jun 2016 #97

"by then it may be too late for a parent who caused the problem to rein it in" giving up on a kid is uponit7771 Jun 2016 #109

Reading comprehension helps laundry_queen Jun 2016 #111

I had the feral upbringing, my parents having too many kids, too fast. hunter Jun 2016 #40

I agree. laundry_queen Jun 2016 #67

So is enforcing the idea that there is little consequence to stepping out of bounds which in some... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #73

"You broke it, you fix it" is a much tougher expectation than "you might get punished." hunter Jun 2016 #91

Ok...so there is consequences enforced and I agree 100%.. uponit7771 Jun 2016 #92

Paying attention and not being messy... that wasn't on my parent's radar. hunter Jun 2016 #99

Not given a relatively instant negative reaction to detrimental behavior is more abusive than doing uponit7771 Jun 2016 #24

You present the choices as A. Hit your kid, or B. Do nothing at all. Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #100

I was responding to a post, that's not my position at all uponit7771 Jun 2016 #108

False dilemma. It is not a choice between spanking and doing nothing. merrily Jun 2016 #118

I was spanked more often by teachers than parents. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #42

FIVE DECADES of research? How many decades of research with no legislative action would it have merrily Jun 2016 #6

If I am reading the article correctly, it is a study of other studies. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #74

Right wryter2000 Jun 2016 #78

It's was an analysis of 50 years of original research. I'm not getting your point. merrily Jun 2016 #116

Thank you for posting this. This validates my every-day actions while phylny Jun 2016 #22

sophistry, "specific to the effects of spanking ALONE" they did no study on escalated corrective.. uponit7771 Jun 2016 #25

Why do you claim they didn't study "escalated corrective action"? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #48

No, you've misread that. "Alone" IS opposed to "other types of physical punishment" muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #114

Your confusing spanking with physical abuse.... dubyadiprecession Jun 2016 #30

+1, and the study said this ..."specific to the effects of spanking ALONE"... well yeah.... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #32

Mentally tougher? I'm sorry that's just not true... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #47

They isolated for that if you would read the article and paper... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #45

Yes of course because they said ..."SPANKING ALONE" which is at the least confusing cause of uponit7771 Jun 2016 #75

I like how you take two words out of context and add your own definition to it... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #76

That's their words, not mine... also in the study they don't say whether or not there was any other uponit7771 Jun 2016 #80

Its a meta-analysis of other studies where they try to isolate the variables, what they found is... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #83

K & R! HuckleB Jun 2016 #36

The harm in fatherlessness is at least as compelling lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #39

Unless the father is a bad influence loyalsister Jun 2016 #43

There are undoubtedly exceptions to the prohibition on spanking too. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #44

I would have been quite happy without mine loyalsister Jun 2016 #46

The studies are repeatable and well documented. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #56

Again loyalsister Jun 2016 #57

And yet, the social impact of excluding these "bad" fathers from households lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #59

So, women whose abusive, drug addict husbands loyalsister Jun 2016 #60

Maybe they wouldn't be abusive drug-addict husbands if they had fathers. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #61

Or maybe they learned that behavior from loyalsister Jun 2016 #64

The fatherless kids that are nearly 300% more likely to carry a gun didn't learn that from dad. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #66

And yet loyalsister Jun 2016 #68

Someone should tell those "dads" who absent themselves from their families REP Jun 2016 #62

And you obviously consider yourself exceptional in that regard. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #65

Not sure how that is even relevant to the thread, many times the status of single parenthood... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #49

+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #98

for one thing, it teaches a child that it is okay for someone bigger to physically assault someone niyad Jun 2016 #55

A lot of republican self servicing people were probably spanked kimbutgar Jun 2016 #58

We've never spanked our kids Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #79

This isn't at all surprising Juan_George09 Jun 2016 #86

If you want your kids to despise you, hit them. They will wish you were dead. Skeeter Barnes Jun 2016 #101

This is false on its face, my parents generation as an example... which these studies don't address uponit7771 Jun 2016 #110

I guess today's kids are just too mentally weak to not be able to stand a spanking or two... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #117

Yep laundry_queen Jun 2016 #112

Very sorry you went through that but appreciate you sharing your story. Skeeter Barnes Jun 2016 #121

K&R DesertRat Jun 2016 #102