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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
111. Thank you, PAMod. Please know I very much appreciate your perspectives.
Wed May 18, 2016, 11:04 AM
May 2016

Gen. Patton was wont to say to his staff while planning for a battle or exercise: "If everyone is thinking alike, nobody is doing any thinking."

Getting other perspectives is how we learn. For example, the following was published in the Washington Post and, evidently, few other newspapers at the time:



Limit CIA Role To Intelligence

By Harry S Truman
The Washington Post, December 22, 1963 - page A11

INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA. At least, I would like to submit here the original reason why I thought it necessary to organize this Agency during my Administration, what I expected it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of the President.

I think it is fairly obvious that by and large a President's performance in office is as effective as the information he has and the information he gets. That is to say, that assuming the President himself possesses a knowledge of our history, a sensitive understanding of our institutions, and an insight into the needs and aspirations of the people, he needs to have available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute information on what is going on everywhere in the world, and particularly of the trends and developments in all the danger spots in the contest between East and West. This is an immense task and requires a special kind of an intelligence facility.

Of course, every President has available to him all the information gathered by the many intelligence agencies already in existence. The Departments of State, Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly engaged in extensive information gathering and have done excellent work.

But their collective information reached the President all too frequently in conflicting conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended to be slanted to conform to established positions of a given department. This becomes confusing and what's worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President in reaching the right decisions.

Therefore, I decided to set up a special organization charged with the collection of all intelligence reports from every available source, and to have those reports reach me as President without department "treatment" or interpretations.

I wanted and needed the information in its "natural raw" state and in as comprehensive a volume as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But the most important thing about this move was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I thought it was necessary that the President do his own thinking and evaluating.

Since the responsibility for decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no information is kept from him for whatever reason at the discretion of any one department or agency, or that unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always those who would want to shield a President from bad news or misjudgments to spare him from being "upset."

For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.

I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.

With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda about "Yankee imperialism," "exploitive capitalism," "war-mongering," "monopolists," in their name-calling assault on the West, the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people.

I well knew the first temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the highest character, patriotism and integrity—and I assume this is true of all those who continue in charge.

But there are now some searching questions that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President, and that whatever else it can properly perform in that special field—and that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.

We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.

SOURCE: http://www.maebrussell.com/Prouty/Harry%20Truman's%20CIA%20article.html



So. One month after the assassination, President Truman expressed public concern CIA had strayed off the reservation from intelligence gathering of foreign news sources to cloak-and-dagger operations. Time -- and the Church Committee -- has since shown CIA operated, illegally, domestically.

Allen Dulles, on behalf of CIA, even asked Truman to retract it. From Ray McGovern...



Fox Guarding Hen House

The well-connected Dulles got himself appointed to the Warren Commission and took the lead in shaping the investigation of JFK’s assassination.

Documents in the Truman Library show that he then mounted a small domestic covert action of his own to neutralize any future airing of Truman’s and Souers’s warnings about covert action.

So important was this to Dulles that he invented a pretext to get himself invited to visit Truman in Independence, Missouri. On the afternoon of April 17, 1964, Dulles spent a half-hour trying to get the former President to retract what he had said in his op-ed. No dice, said Truman.

No problem, thought Dulles. Four days later, in a formal memo for his old buddy Lawrence Houston, CIA General Counsel from 1947 to 1973, Dulles fabricated a private retraction, claiming that Truman told him the Washington Post article was “all wrong,” and that Truman “seemed quite astounded at it.”

No doubt Dulles thought it might be handy to have such a memo in CIA files, just in case.

A fabricated retraction? It certainly seems so, because Truman did not change his tune. Far from it.

In a June 10, 1964, letter to the managing editor of Look magazine, for example, Truman restated his critique of covert action, emphasizing that he never intended the CIA to get involved in “strange activities.”

CONTINUED...

SOURCE: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/122909b.html



Democracy. Thank you, no matter what, for caring about it, PAMod.
Interesting life. His role in Jonestown is certainly eye opening. nt hack89 May 2016 #1
Mark Lane was a Social Justice Warrior before there was such a term. Octafish May 2016 #14
He was also crazy as a loon, at least in regards to his role in Jonestown. hack89 May 2016 #19
The CIA instructed its ''Media Assets'' to demonize Mark Lane in 1967. Octafish May 2016 #31
Not according to your link hack89 May 2016 #33
Links go to the document. Octafish May 2016 #39
I don't know if it it illegal or not. hack89 May 2016 #40
Yes. CIA by law was limited to overseas operations, no domestic operations. Octafish May 2016 #41
Ok. Mark Lane was still a loon however. nt hack89 May 2016 #44
That's what you and CIA wrote. That's not what history shows. Octafish May 2016 #46
Take a close look at his role in Jonestown. Pure batshit crazy to put it mildly. hack89 May 2016 #47
Please show how. Octafish May 2016 #49
Sure hack89 May 2016 #50
Doesn't seem loony, considering CIA works its magic on Wikipedia. Octafish May 2016 #56
So working with a mad man in the jungles to brainwash a bunch of people hack89 May 2016 #60
But Lane didn't do any of that, did he? Octafish May 2016 #61
ok. nt hack89 May 2016 #62
You don't know what you're talking about. milestogo May 2016 #67
He was a genuine conspiracy theory peddling nut case. hack89 May 2016 #69
Not at all. Ask Robert K. Tanenbaum. Octafish May 2016 #84
How about the establishment documents of the CIA. It expressly prohibits operations inside the US. Zen Democrat May 2016 #51
Did he die under "mysterious circumstances?" nt firebrand80 May 2016 #2
It was the BFEE, obviously. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #3
George H.W. Bush should be considered a suspect, based on what he told the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #6
TL;DR Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #7
Nothing says, ''I don't have a clue'' as your post. Octafish May 2016 #8
The BFEE made me do it. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #9
Those are FBI documents. Octafish May 2016 #11
Cool story. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #12
Learn then: JFK had to order Hoover to integrate the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #17
"Important parts of history" Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #18
I'll take Dick Gregory over Dr Hobbitstein of DU any day. Octafish May 2016 #20
We also know you love some Paul Craig Roberts. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #21
I've never called him a douche, if that's what you mean. Octafish May 2016 #22
Confidence in the government? rperlberg May 2016 #73
That's the Thing. Octafish May 2016 #74
So you come in here and crap in the thread...stay classy. Rex May 2016 #35
You are the most clueless CS poster on this board. Almost a parody of CS everywhere. nt Logical May 2016 #99
Personal attacks are so you, Logical. Octafish May 2016 #102
oh for god's sake... how pathetic Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #24
There are very pathetic people that post here and support the Bush family. Rex May 2016 #36
Pure unmitigated ignorance. Zen Democrat May 2016 #55
ALCOA! NuclearDem May 2016 #30
He suffered a heart attack. Octafish May 2016 #15
I Never Actually Thought RobinA May 2016 #23
With all respect, I do have a problem with the lone loser theory. Octafish May 2016 #28
I Think RobinA May 2016 #25
This I will tell you: Your life is better for Mark Lane having lived. Octafish May 2016 #94
"expert"? FLPanhandle May 2016 #4
Bertrand Russell respected Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #16
Damn. They finally got him. (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #5
Did you hear about Cheney and CIA Assassination cover-up? Octafish May 2016 #29
Hmmmm. Gidney N Cloyd May 2016 #10
Truman criticized CIA after the assassination of JFK. Fired CIA boss Dulles demanded retraction. Octafish May 2016 #45
RIP Mark Lane GreatGazoo May 2016 #13
very interesting yourpaljoey May 2016 #27
They couldn't out-think him, so they had to smear Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #70
he lived a long and important life Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #26
He did. Another important eyewitness is still with us: Abraham BOLDEN Octafish May 2016 #63
that's right-- thanks for the reminder. I heard him interviewed a few years back Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #65
His book Plausible Denial is a pretty interestin read. avebury May 2016 #32
Great book. Great case. And E. Howard Hunt was a real piece of wetwork. Octafish May 2016 #86
The funny thing about the Hunt lawsuit is that, based on Hunt's testimony, avebury May 2016 #88
Mark Lane arrives at the pearly gates Capt. Obvious May 2016 #34
Dont give up your day job HOPNOSH May 2016 #37
I thought it was pretty funny (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #43
LOL nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #48
Now THAT is a funny joke. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #58
I laughed Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #66
I see the DU children are happy he died, why are they so pathetic Octafish? Rex May 2016 #38
Their pathetic nature is due to their ignorance. Octafish May 2016 #72
Mark Lane was a kook. Archae May 2016 #42
There is NO credible evidence that Oswald shot at JFK, much less killed him. Zen Democrat May 2016 #53
I've studied the murder of JFK since I was 15 years old. Zen Democrat May 2016 #54
What do you want for your 16th birthday? nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #59
*snort* NuclearDem May 2016 #64
Lee Harvey Oswald killed Mark Lane!!! Fozzledick May 2016 #68
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a realist and a student of history and our times. Zen Democrat May 2016 #89
You're not very good at recognizing sarcasm though. Fozzledick May 2016 #90
Lane said the only evidence linking Oswald was CE399. Octafish May 2016 #114
Excellent summation. FTR: Gen. LeMay lied about his whereabouts. Octafish May 2016 #115
You compared discussing the assassination of President Kennedy to beating a dead horse. Octafish May 2016 #71
Here. Archae May 2016 #78
Get a copy of Barry and the Boys by Daniel Hopsicker....the story lives on. ViseGrip May 2016 #52
David Ferrie, Barry Seal and Lee Oswald: Patsies or Participants? Octafish May 2016 #105
Sorry dear O-fish….. blm May 2016 #57
Thank you for your kindness, blm. Octafish May 2016 #82
((Octafish)) blm May 2016 #83
It's telling that the members of the Warren Commission are silent about his passing. Kaleva May 2016 #75
Why honor a peddler of conspiratorial BS? YoungDemCA May 2016 #96
The commissioners all have passed. Some staff are still with us. Octafish May 2016 #108
Excellent information, Octafish, thanks for posting. JonLeibowitz May 2016 #76
You are most welcome, JonLeibowitz! I very much appreciate that you understand and care. Octafish May 2016 #113
My condolences. I know from your posts, he was an important figure in your life. MerryBlooms May 2016 #77
Thank you for your kindness, MerryBlooms. Octafish May 2016 #81
K&R!!!!!! burrowowl May 2016 #79
Here's an excellent radio interview with Mr. Lane via Project CENSORED Octafish May 2016 #92
My first memories of Mark Lane was from the 1967 interview Duppers May 2016 #80
Thank you very much, Duppers. Here's what James DiEugenio wrote last week... Octafish May 2016 #110
Wow! Thanks for posting that article link and... Duppers May 2016 #112
This sounds fishy to me. I bet he's still alive. Gomez163 May 2016 #85
Condolences to you & to his family, friends & followers - PAMod May 2016 #87
Thank you, PAMod. Please know I very much appreciate your perspectives. Octafish May 2016 #111
did he say anything about Cruz's father ? Laura PourMeADrink May 2016 #91
I don't know. Do know the guy who did is dead by gunshot under suspicious circumstances. Octafish May 2016 #93
Looks like "they" got another one! YoungDemCA May 2016 #95
Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and CIA-Cuban “Deep Politics” Octafish May 2016 #100
It's truly sad to see someone who dedicated his life to crackpot "theories" pass away YoungDemCA May 2016 #97
Now THAT is asinine. Octafish May 2016 #101
I ASSUMED MURDERED!!!!!! The truth is out there!!!! nt Logical May 2016 #98
What do you know about Mark Lane? Octafish May 2016 #103
Sounds like a good man, but that does not mean he is right about jfk. Nt Logical May 2016 #104
So why do you have to insult his memory and smear his good name? Octafish May 2016 #109
Dalton Trumbo MinM May 2016 #106
Trumbo's lesson: The Right will do anything to get its way. Octafish May 2016 #107
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