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muriel_volestrangler

(101,414 posts)

18. Well, thanks for the townhall.com quote, I guess - no wonder it was misleading

Sat Oct 3, 2015, 05:48 PM

Oct 2015

That's what townhall.com is for. Here's what you quoted:

In The UK, Guns Aren't The Problem, It's Knives. And The Number Of Attacks Are Surging
Matt Vespa | Jul 18, 2015

Gun ownership is an alien concept with our British cousins across the Atlantic, but that doesn’t mean that violent crime has been reduced. In fact, with no guns readily available, though there are gun crimes in the UK, knives seem to be the weapon of choice. This isn't surprising. The rise in knife attacks has been in the UK press since 2008–and they’ve increased by 13 percent since last year (via Sky News):

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/07/18/uk-knife-attacks-are-surging-n2026497

(Sky got it right, by the way, since they started their article "Knife crime has increased for the first time in many years, annual crime statistics have revealed.&quot

I did a comparison between knife homicide in the UK and USA a couple of years ago:

Figures for 3 years of England & Wales homicides

Sharp instrument 698
Hitting, kicking, etc. 401
Blunt instrument 167
Strangulation/asphyxiation 158
Shooting 140
Other 320
Total 1,884

(note the years for recording crime don't run from Jan-Dec, for some reason. So "combined data for 2008/09 to 2010/11" means 3 years, starting 2008, 2009 and 2010)

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary

These can be compared with the US data, available for 2008 here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/oct/05/us-homicide-rates
The US had a homicide by sharp instrument rate of 0.67 per 100,000 per year; England and Wales, roughly, 0.43 (about 55 million population). Hitting etc. - USA: 0.30; E&W: 0.25. So those 2 categories are roughly equal. Shooting: USA: 3.33; E&W: 0.09.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2282358

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In The UK, Guns Aren't The Problem, It's Knives. [View all] RKP5637 Oct 2015 OP

When a guy with a knife takes out a dozen people in a shopping mall or school, let us know jberryhill Oct 2015 #1

Yes, definitely, a gun is more lethal. Apparently they outlawed guns, then it switched, now RKP5637 Oct 2015 #2

Well, no: even in the UK guns are what people use to inflict mass casualties. That and bombs Recursion Oct 2015 #9

What type of guns are allowed Jim Beard Oct 2015 #44

Some shotguns and .22 rimfire rifles are allowed Recursion Oct 2015 #46

apparently knives are not nearly "as effective" agents of intentional homicide as guns etherealtruth Oct 2015 #3

This seems so much more prevalent than in the past. I'm curious as to what the underlying socialital RKP5637 Oct 2015 #4

Thank you. I've been wondering that also and have read too little about it uppityperson Oct 2015 #5

Exactly TubbersUK Oct 2015 #32

Fabulous. beevul Oct 2015 #6

Yep, it will get ridiculous. Unless the root cause is understood and somehow alleviated RKP5637 Oct 2015 #7

Ryan, Sartin, Hamilton, and Bird all used guns Recursion Oct 2015 #8

What are the underlying reasons we are seeing more of this in the states? Just more people now? RKP5637 Oct 2015 #14

Lots of untreated mental illness, hifiguy Oct 2015 #25

Yep, I think that's a big part of it. And where to turn for help or even pay, and sometimes RKP5637 Oct 2015 #28

It's odd, isn't it? Even countries with higher gun violence than us don't seem to have this Recursion Oct 2015 #45

It is odd. It used to be robberies, confrontations, etc. for the most part sometimes led to gun RKP5637 Oct 2015 #57

I have always wondered why schools are so often the target? smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #60

Excellent question, it's so horrific. Innocent children and they go after them. I imagine RKP5637 Oct 2015 #64

Workplaces are apparently even more common Recursion Oct 2015 #65

Because for the most part this is done by young males Recursion Oct 2015 #66

copycats Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #67

Yep, I think that's a big part of it. People on the edge and in their mind it's seen as OK to do, RKP5637 Oct 2015 #68

and it is almost never mentioned Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #69

Yep! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #70

Yes nt Mojorabbit Oct 2015 #76

Here ya go shadowrider Oct 2015 #55

In the UK Recursion Oct 2015 #56

"The rise in knife attacks has been in the UK press since 2008........" - Really ??? TubbersUK Oct 2015 #10

They were discussing on BBC this morning. There is considerable concern. Yes, the Sky quote RKP5637 Oct 2015 #12

Definitely misleading In my opinion TubbersUK Oct 2015 #15

Yep, they well might have read too much into it. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #16

Ah, I see from down the thread TubbersUK Oct 2015 #40

Yep!!! RKP5637 Oct 2015 #42

Which would you rather face? workinclasszero Oct 2015 #11

Definitely a knife. ... but my questing was, why are we seeing more of this. What are the underlying RKP5637 Oct 2015 #13

How do you explain evil? workinclasszero Oct 2015 #17

I think that's a lot of it too. I've always felt one can be born evil and/or predisposed to it RKP5637 Oct 2015 #19

Not excusing murder but. .. workinclasszero Oct 2015 #29

Yep, I'm familiar with the experiment, studied it a long time ago and have never RKP5637 Oct 2015 #31

Wow that's the study...thanks workinclasszero Oct 2015 #37

I think so. To me, people often get in the way of each other and that's when conflicts RKP5637 Oct 2015 #41

Interesting stuff workinclasszero Oct 2015 #43

I agree, this topic needs to be discussed more often than it is. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #62

Yep, it will take generations to meld the pot together, so to say. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #63

That's very interesting. I think this should be it's own OP. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #61

It started when they took prayer out of schools /scarc yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #26

Perhaps people are encountering more structural violence Shankapotomus Oct 2015 #49

IMO that is one of the underlying root causes. One feels they can't compete RKP5637 Oct 2015 #52

Well, thanks for the townhall.com quote, I guess - no wonder it was misleading muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #18

Thanks for this update! I've just been hearing it talked about a lot today on the BBC. RKP5637 Oct 2015 #21

I updated my OP to delete the townhall.com quote. Thanks! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #24

That homicide by knife comparison is useful TubbersUK Oct 2015 #47

Semi-automatic knives, now? WinkyDink Oct 2015 #20

Likely! When I was a kid smoking in the boy's bathroom was about the worst one could do. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #22

Soccer riots are a big problem there too Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #23

Someone did an analysis on it. RKP5637 Oct 2015 #27

Do they have mass stabbings every couple of weeks? nt valerief Oct 2015 #30

Or drive-by stabbings? n/t Contrary1 Oct 2015 #33

I'll take cutlery over bullets any day. nt valerief Oct 2015 #34

Yep! Same here!!! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #38

I'm wondering what it might morph to next. I think the root cause for the behavior is likely RKP5637 Oct 2015 #35

Trickle-down Thatcherism, like we have trickle-down Reaganism. valerief Oct 2015 #36

Excellent point!!! I do think that has a lot to do with it. I think many see RKP5637 Oct 2015 #39

There was a mass knife attack in China a while back Shankapotomus Oct 2015 #50

Definitely, guns are more lethal. Getting the availability of guns under control is the right RKP5637 Oct 2015 #53

Anyone watched the hit TV series Flashpoint? Jeneral2885 Oct 2015 #48

Guns are more impersonal tavernier Oct 2015 #51

Yep, I agree. It removes the shooter from the event. Some, not all, might think, WTF am I doing. It RKP5637 Oct 2015 #54

Ah I see gunzcentral has decided to expand Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #58

What are the causes? Why do some strike out with mass shootings, especially in the US. RKP5637 Oct 2015 #59

There is a 100% correlation between guns and mass shootings. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #74

Well said!!! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #75

I am finding the conversation thoughtful and interesting. Mojorabbit Oct 2015 #77

I find the stigmatization of people with emotional disabilities appalling. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #78

The discussion was about possible reasons for this behavior Mojorabbit Oct 2015 #79

At least knives have other uses malaise Oct 2015 #71

Excellent point, malaise, as always!!! RKP5637 Oct 2015 #72

Sometimes malaise Oct 2015 #73

... RKP5637 Oct 2015 #80