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beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
56. You're using selective excerpts to promote your cause and ignoring others:
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 04:57 PM
Jun 2015
On the other hand, there has been no improvement since 2010 in opinions about the effect of free trade agreements on wages. Currently, 46% say free trade deals make the wages of American workers lower, while just 11% say they lead to higher wages (33% say they do not make a difference). The share saying that trade agreements drive down wages is largely unchanged since 2010, when 45% said they made wages lower.

In addition, trade agreements continue to be seen as doing more to cost jobs than create them. In the new survey, 46% say free trade agreements lead to job losses in the United States; just 17% say they create jobs in this country. That is only somewhat more positive than five years ago, when 55% said trade deals cost jobs and 8% said they create jobs.


Nearly half (46%) of Americans say trade agreements lead to job losses, more than twice the number (17%) who say they create jobs (28% say they do not make a difference). Similarly, 46% say free trade agreements make the wages of American workers lower, while just 11% say they make wages higher (33% say they do not make a difference). On both of these questions there are no significant differences in the views of Republicans, Democrats and independents.


Currently, 52% of those who rate their financial situations as good or excellent say their finances have been helped by free trade agreements, up from 37% six years ago.

By comparison, there has been a smaller increase in positive views of the impact of free trade agreements among those who rate their own finances as only fair (41% today vs. 34% in November 2009).

Those who rate their finances as poor continue to say free trade agreements have had a negative effect on their financial conditions. About twice as many people who say their finances are in poor shape say they have been hurt than helped by free trade agreements (55% vs. 27%). That is little changed from the way people who saw their financial situations as poor viewed free trade agreements six years ago; at that time, 50% said their finances were hurt by free trade and just 24% said they were helped.


According to that info the TPP is just fucking awesome if you don't care about the opinions of poor people.

Propaganda only works if people don't look at it too closely.

Looks like Stop the TPP isn't such a winning issue among younger voters and Hispanics: ucrdem Jun 2015 #1
Whoever sees this as the issue they think is going to treestar Jun 2015 #44
That's cool. But, then, why the organised pile-on when some of us express our concern about it? djean111 Jun 2015 #57
It does seem a job assignment that you have to hate it treestar Jun 2015 #60
Well then, I guess we will see, won't we. In the meantime, no votes from me for those who vote djean111 Jun 2015 #66
Would love to see where countries won't be able to negotiate drug prices. Hoyt Jun 2015 #72
"With all that said, I think our laws should limit ....." Joe Turner Jun 2015 #102
No you don't get it. Read about the international tribunals that use UN/WTO rules and Hoyt Jun 2015 #108
Are you going on record that the TPP will not supersede Joe Turner Jun 2015 #120
Yes. Of course, many of the so-called progressives here call it superseding when a country Hoyt Jun 2015 #121
Complete obfuscation of the point Joe Turner Jun 2015 #140
They have to show they've been discriminated against in favor of domestic corporations. Hoyt Jun 2015 #143
B/S they can show cause by the U.S. having a regulation that has a higher standard Joe Turner Jun 2015 #146
Do you have the language to prove that, or is "BS" your proof. Hoyt Jun 2015 #147
I don't know. How about the actual language of TPP Joe Turner Jun 2015 #153
So, now you've gone to talking trade deficits. Did you know plenty of economists Hoyt Jun 2015 #145
The same economics that have told us what a great deal free trade is? Joe Turner Jun 2015 #148
The manufacturing base has been sliding since first transistor radios, Chinese Finger Traps, and VWs Hoyt Jun 2015 #152
Yes, it is amazing what happens when a country Joe Turner Jun 2015 #155
You obviously fear foreigners. Better to embrace them and adapt. Hoyt Jun 2015 #162
Oh so that's it. Learning to adapt to lower standards Joe Turner Jun 2015 #165
Yep all the countries party to trade agreements are corporate bought, and you and a few self-styled Hoyt Jun 2015 #193
You seem to have no memory of the past Joe Turner Jun 2015 #195
Yet, they are party to these agreements because they want more trade and investment in their Hoyt Jun 2015 #197
They are party to these agreements like China and Japan Joe Turner Jun 2015 #199
They get better deals because they make better products. Hoyt Jun 2015 #200
America had the best products for decades Joe Turner Jun 2015 #202
Did you ever drive our 60/70s gas guzzlers. Heavy, crummy cars, unless you need a high Hoyt Jun 2015 #203
and that period in autos defines American quality? Joe Turner Jun 2015 #205
And, nobody wants our cars because they cost too much for what you get. Sorry, that's the truth. Hoyt Jun 2015 #211
Really? I thought these free trade deals were going to open up markets for us Joe Turner Jun 2015 #218
You do realize if a country opens an auto plan here, it brings good jobs. But, Hoyt Jun 2015 #220
I realize that this country has been blown out of 1 industry after another Joe Turner Jun 2015 #227
And TPP is trying to salvage what we can. Manufacturing jobs have been disappearing for 40 years Hoyt Jun 2015 #228
Your logic is circular Joe Turner Jun 2015 #229
It's amazing what money can buy Joe Turner Jun 2015 #62
Pew isn't a think tank per se, it's a polling company. ucrdem Jun 2015 #67
Nice to know Pew is doing God's work for democracy Joe Turner Jun 2015 #81
And they will be so hurt by it. ananda Jun 2015 #64
Liberal Democrats more likely than conservative Republicans to favor free trade: ucrdem Jun 2015 #2
Thanks for pointing that out. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #196
And yet, liberal Democrats in Congress who have actually read the damn thing Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #215
Is this hosrseshit supposed to be about TPP? eridani Jun 2015 #3
Yep. ucrdem Jun 2015 #5
Yep. Compliance with antidemocratic thuggery. It's a good thing! n/t eridani Jun 2015 #6
Executing old people is great too. Medicare doesn't really need that $700 million n/t eridani Jun 2015 #7
Thank the Democratic Senators who grandstanded for that one. ucrdem Jun 2015 #10
I'm thanking them by refusing to donate to any of them from now on n/t eridani Jun 2015 #14
Then don't complain when they solicit PAC donations. ucrdem Jun 2015 #17
Seriously, are bank accounts antidemocratic thuggery? ucrdem Jun 2015 #8
Whoring for corporate overthrow of public decisions is antidemocratic thuggery n/t eridani Jun 2015 #11
Evidenty the public HAS decided. They decided free trade is good for the US. ucrdem Jun 2015 #13
oops .. wrong place ucrdem Jun 2015 #15
And Germans voted the Nazis into power Trajan Jun 2015 #106
Godwin's law. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #111
Your op is a tribute to Hanlon's Razor. nt beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #117
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. AgingAmerican Jun 2015 #235
I expect this will come was welcome news to the HRC campaign ucrdem Jun 2015 #4
That's pretty sad RobertEarl Jun 2015 #9
And when you drive your new electric car off the lot in a couple of years ucrdem Jun 2015 #12
I doubt the average American will be able to afford a new car in a few years betterdemsonly Jun 2015 #38
My region already has electric cars all over the place, without the TPP arcane1 Jun 2015 #47
What does democracy being alive have to do with electric cars? TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #238
Part hope, part hunch... ucrdem Jun 2015 #239
What does that have to do with a functioning democracy? TheKentuckian Jun 2015 #240
College Grads, Young People More Likely to View Free Trade Agreements As Helping Personal Finances ucrdem Jun 2015 #16
The farther in time we get from the last free trade agreement, the more people forget the harm done Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #27
Free-traders: liberal Dems, Hispanics, young voters. Protectionists: cons, Republicans, older voters ucrdem Jun 2015 #18
Only 5 chapters of the TPP are about trade. The rest is corporate giveaway. djean111 Jun 2015 #19
The poll is the most recent data we've got. ucrdem Jun 2015 #21
Here are the chapter subjects grouped by topic: ucrdem Jun 2015 #24
TPP at-a-glance ucrdem Jun 2015 #20
p.s. heres the latest direct link to the TPP text as of today, April 9, 2016: ucrdem Apr 2016 #245
The Democratic Party has been the low-tariff, high-trade party since the Civil War ended. FDR and pampango Jun 2015 #22
Thanks Pampango! ucrdem Jun 2015 #23
Trying to continue peddling TPP propaganda, its not about trade, its about SELLING OUT AMERICA AZ Progressive Jun 2015 #25
The propaganda works? shocking. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #26
Yes, in Vermont. ucrdem Jun 2015 #29
Why do you hate America? AZ Progressive Jun 2015 #28
Because I'm not an older conservative Republican perhaps? ucrdem Jun 2015 #31
So you don't believe what is being leaked out at all? So your calling everyone else liars? AZ Progressive Jun 2015 #33
There are lots of FUD-peddlers, yes, and I've been calling them out for as long as I've been here. ucrdem Jun 2015 #35
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are FUD-peddlers now? arcane1 Jun 2015 #45
Per the Pew poll their views on free trade are shared by a shrinking conservative minority. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #51
And Warren and Sanders are now conservatives according to you? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #83
PoliticusUSA, June 7: "Poll Finds 80% Of Republicans Agree With Bernie Sanders ucrdem Jun 2015 #154
You DISAGREE with him about Citizen's United??? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #156
I read it and CU isn't the only shared view. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #157
So disagreeing with Sanders re Citzens United and big money in politics is a bad thing. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #158
Didn't say that. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #159
You said: "Poll Finds 80% Of Republicans Agree With Bernie Sanders On Citizens United" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #160
I posted the article title and noted the content. The rest is on you. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #161
Nope. You made the claim so it's up to you to back it up. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #163
Actually you made the claim. Not me. ucrdem Jun 2015 #164
You claimed anti-TPP sentiment was "skewed" towards "older conservative Republicans" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #167
Sorry, you can keep on rolling but you're on your own. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #169
I've been on my own since I asked why you ignored crucial data in the op. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #172
He was so desperate for me to play along. However I decided not to feed him much. Rex Jun 2015 #225
I saw that. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #236
Perfect, you two can be each other's imaginary friends. ucrdem Jun 2015 #237
Experience has taught me not to jump on something without knowing all the facts AZ Progressive Jun 2015 #74
Huh? TPP is Republican trade legislation Joe Turner Jun 2015 #198
You seem to know very little about the TPP. Please educate yourself. Here are the links again: ucrdem Jun 2015 #201
People overwhelmingly support voter ID laws as well. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #30
Do you have a link to a reputable recent national poll showing that? ucrdem Jun 2015 #32
Well that was from talking to people but if you want a blue link. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #34
". . . according to a Fox News poll released this week." ucrdem Jun 2015 #36
here is another we could probably do this all day. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #39
Newsmax? ucrdem Jun 2015 #43
let me know when I get to one that you like Kalidurga Jun 2015 #52
Aug 14, 2012 ucrdem Jun 2015 #54
that's interesting treestar Jun 2015 #37
Not all Democrats understand all the issues. Kalidurga Jun 2015 #40
They don't understand it? Or they don't agree with you? Which is it? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #207
Both--they can't understand it if they don't agree. ucrdem Jun 2015 #210
!!! Tarheel_Dem Jun 2015 #212
I'm smelling flop sweat from team Jules . . . ucrdem Jun 2015 #234
Especially among Hispanic, liberal, and younger Democrats at that. ucrdem Jun 2015 #42
Well, that proves that the marketing for it has been effective. arcane1 Jun 2015 #41
How many opponents can show that it hasn't? ucrdem Jun 2015 #49
So? This just proves to me sadoldgirl Jun 2015 #46
$ per word? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2015 #48
Know whut I mean? ucrdem Jun 2015 #50
It takes a special kind of idiot to promote free trade for minimum wage. Marr Jun 2015 #73
I know, right? n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2015 #137
The sleight of hand here is to test for free trade in general rather than the tpp specifically betterdemsonly Jun 2015 #53
See my post #56 below, the op was very choosy about the data. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #79
Did they only poll Internet corporate shills? HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #55
Yes, polls that challenge your preconceptions must be silly and meaningless. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #58
But of course polls can be worded to achieve a desired result. HooptieWagon Jun 2015 #135
You're using selective excerpts to promote your cause and ignoring others: beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #56
It's a national poll about international trade treaties. ucrdem Jun 2015 #59
Since when is "a national sample of 2,002 adults" a concensus of Americans? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #61
If you have better, more accurate, or more recent data by all means post it. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #63
Unlike you, I wouldn't use such sketchy data to promote my pet cause. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #65
If you have better data, post it, TIA. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #70
Why? I used results from the poll in the op to point out that you put your own spin on it. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #71
As a statistics denier, do you also mistrust science? Hoyt Jun 2015 #75
I didn't deny statistics, I rejected the spin the op put on them. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #77
This should be good news for Hillary Joe Turner Jun 2015 #76
I think so. I think it's good news for Nov. 2016 ucrdem Jun 2015 #84
"it means a certain-single issue challenger is on the losing side" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #85
The TPP. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #86
So according to you, Bernie Sanders is only about the TPP... beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #87
"You cannot be on the fence on this one. You are either for it or you are against it. No fence- ucrdem Jun 2015 #90
Lol! Just because you can only see one issue doesn't mean we don't see the others. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #94
He's said several times that TPP was the key issue in his campaign. ucrdem Jun 2015 #98
Again: "pertaining or devoted to one public issue ONLY, especially a political one" beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #104
I'm afraid you're grasping at straws. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #105
You don't even know the definitions of the words you're flinging around. You're the poster child for beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #115
Isn't it good news to distingush herself from Sanders and O'Malley Joe Turner Jun 2015 #89
I don't see the hurry but it will come out soon enough. ucrdem Jun 2015 #91
Why wait for the debate? Joe Turner Jun 2015 #97
Maybe because those bashes are going to boomerang? ucrdem Jun 2015 #103
Sure, keep on telling that to yourself Joe Turner Jun 2015 #114
It's simply amazing... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #68
LOL, yes it is amazing. ucrdem Jun 2015 #69
46% of Americans Believe In Creationism IDemo Jun 2015 #78
Most of them are republicans. Most republicans oppose TPP. Does not mean pampango Jun 2015 #134
Just trying to point out IDemo Jun 2015 #136
True. Polls are good for showing what people think. Not whether they are right or wrong. pampango Jun 2015 #141
U.S. Polling Shows NAFTA-style Trade Deals Becoming Even More Unpopular Rex Jun 2015 #174
There's no text in your message. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #180
It's the title of an article. So why should there be any? nt Rex Jun 2015 #182
You didn't post any article. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #185
That's okay I didn't plan to. Rex Jun 2015 #187
This subthread did not go very well LOL. ucrdem Jun 2015 #190
If you say so. Rex Jun 2015 #191
Cool MFrohike Jun 2015 #80
! beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #82
Keep in mind that half the population can't name the 3 branches of government. Vinca Jun 2015 #88
Literacy test, check. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #92
If national polls are going to be reported and considered important, Vinca Jun 2015 #213
How would DU have reacted to FDR's International Trade Organization (and GATT), the IMF and World Bank pampango Jun 2015 #93
+ a bazillian. ucrdem Jun 2015 #95
Opposition to free trade is "libertarian"? Next tell me about the trickle down populists. Romulox Jun 2015 #99
Um, what? MFrohike Jun 2015 #107
Libertarians object to regulation and TPP is 29 volumes of regulation. ucrdem Jun 2015 #109
You're confused MFrohike Jun 2015 #112
Sorry, but regulating trade is what TPP is all about. ucrdem Jun 2015 #113
Hahahahahahaha MFrohike Jun 2015 #119
Let me make this easier for you . . . ucrdem Jun 2015 #124
Yeesh MFrohike Jun 2015 #126
3-sentence summary posted upthread, but you couldn't be bothered to click the link. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #129
It must be invisible MFrohike Jun 2015 #132
LOL, it's in my sig among other places. But ya gotta click it. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #149
Like I said, invisible MFrohike Jun 2015 #170
None so blind as those who will not see I guess. Done here. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #171
Heh MFrohike Jun 2015 #194
Speaking of invisible....check out Tom Tomorrow and the Invisible Hand neverforget Jun 2015 #204
That's a funny cartoon, but the TPP is the opposite of the invisible hand. ucrdem Jun 2015 #209
You're posting the sort of gibberish that only sways the profoundly ignorant. It's embarrassing. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #222
If by hyper-regulation you mean letting the corporations write the rules, then neverforget Jun 2015 #232
Libertarian is synonomous with classical liberal? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #138
Did I say that? MFrohike Jun 2015 #139
Is that a serious question? MFrohike Jun 2015 #101
GATT was "a general lowering of tariffs". The ITO was much more & included international regulations pampango Jun 2015 #118
Interesting point MFrohike Jun 2015 #122
"Pew" Research ...stinks! L0oniX Jun 2015 #96
More like "Pepe Le Pew" Research Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #214
My negative opinion on the TPP was hard won. cheapdate Jun 2015 #100
I wonder what the percentage is of people whose hometowns' unemployment rates skyrocketed gollygee Jun 2015 #110
OP has to rec his own corporate propaganda post. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #116
I always rec useful information, sue me. Here's some more: ucrdem Jun 2015 #123
Why aren't all of the other Hillary supporters joining you in your TPP crusade? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #125
I imagine they don't like being trolled but you can ask them yourself. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #127
From what I've seen they're no shrinking violets when it comes to defending their opinions. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #128
From what I've seen the trollery is 24/7. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #130
Anti-TPP opinion is trollery? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #131
You don't think they get paid per post, do you? yallerdawg Jun 2015 #142
They should be paying Skinner frankly. ucrdem Jun 2015 #150
Yay more corporate propaganda! whatchamacallit Jun 2015 #133
Maybe they think it's simply a trade agreement..don't realize full implications. madfloridian Jun 2015 #144
More likely they have better information. ucrdem Jun 2015 #151
But I didn't just use one source. There were others at the link. madfloridian Jun 2015 #168
Yes you did. ucrdem Jun 2015 #175
Okay here's my take: much ado about sovereignty (ISDS) = FUD of various grades. ucrdem Jun 2015 #208
Newsflash PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #166
U.S. Polling Shows NAFTA-style Trade Deals Becoming Even More Unpopular Rex Jun 2015 #173
There's no message in your message ... ucrdem Jun 2015 #176
Doesn't need to be. People are wising up to shitty deals made in secret. Rex Jun 2015 #177
That's called personal opinion. The OP is about an actual poll. ucrdem Jun 2015 #178
No it is the title of an article. Rex Jun 2015 #179
It's customary to post a link for those who don't have a Vulcan Mind Meld app. nt ucrdem Jun 2015 #183
Oh okay if you say so. Rex Jun 2015 #184
This is your cue for "Looks like this thread isn't going like the OP thought" ucrdem Jun 2015 #188
Huh? Rex Jun 2015 #189
TPP is not about free trade. GeorgeGist Jun 2015 #181
It is the same kind of 'free trade' Reaganites pushed on us for decades. Rex Jun 2015 #186
Yes, fair trade, not "free" trade Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #216
It is really disappointing to see so many progressives on this site parrot 'free trade'. Rex Jun 2015 #221
Working Americans don't think shipping jobs overseas is good. The survey is absurd on it's face. GoneFishin Jun 2015 #192
Some of these rabid pro TPP posters make you wonder where they work Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #206
Absolutely Art_from_Ark Jun 2015 #217
That's for sure. Pretty sure they don't work on an assembly line, or worry about being foreclosed on GoneFishin Jun 2015 #219
That has been proven, some of the loudest against OWS and pro Wall Street Rex Jun 2015 #224
Delusional indeed. Trusting poodles who the 1% would gladly serve up on a barbeque spit. GoneFishin Jun 2015 #230
The people who recommended this should be embarrassed. nt Romulox Jun 2015 #223
There are some that have no shame at all, none. Rex Jun 2015 #226
They are the same ones always pushing the mega-rich fake free trade agenda. Elwood P Dowd Jun 2015 #231
Meanwhile back at the ranch . . . ucrdem Jun 2015 #233
Didn't see this but bookmarked and kicked and rec'd, ucrdem! BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #241
Thanks BCD! ucrdem Nov 2015 #242
AFL-CIO and a few other trade unions have done a good job demonizing the TPP BlueCaliDem Nov 2015 #243
Yeah the demagoguing was out of control and not helpful.` ucrdem Nov 2015 #244
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