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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Fri May 29, 2015, 08:57 PM May 2015

It tells us nothing at this point that HRC beats Bernie among women and poc. [View all]

She's been nationally known for years...Bernie is just establishing a national presence. A well-known candidate, in any race, will always outpoll a less well-known candidate. The voters have not made a final judgment on the merits of any of the candidates, and everything is subject to change in every voter's mind.

It's not as though Bernie's had a fair and equal chance and has already been proved to be unworthy of anyone's support. Nor has Bernie been proven to be rejected by any block of voters. It's early days yet.

And it's not as though HRC, other than the fact that she's been a larger presence politically, actually has a better record of concern or of achievement on anti-oppression issues.

Remember, she was a towering figure in the founding of the Democratic Leadership Council...a group that argued that feminists, LGBTQ people, and poc should be dismissed by the Democratic Party as nothing more than "special interests&quot and that her role in creating that group, unlike her role as first lady, is unchallengably a subject of public debate.

If you are a woman, or a person of color, or LGBTQ, or differently abled, or fighting personal oppression on any other front, Bernie, unlike HRC, has never been actively involved in trying to lock you out in the cold politically, and unlike HRC, Bernie has never run, in any race he has ever contested, as a white backlash candidate who appealed to fears of black political advancement(as HRC did when she said "I'm one of you" while campaigning in West Virginia and other white states in 2008).

If you are simply speaking, as you have every right to do, out of concern that your issues may once again be ignored in this race(as they were in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and by HRC in 2008)you have every right to ask to know where Bernie stands if you aren't aware of his longstanding and uncompromised support of all anti-oppression causes. Everyone accepts that, I think.

(on edit...deleted the last graph...it went in a direction I didn't mean to go on. My bad.)

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So this is an OP about nothing? And the Clinton lead is not artificial, it is real and that is something. Fred Sanders May 2015 #1
Fred, this isn't an OP about nothing. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #3
No it isn't and you know it. Ken Burch May 2015 #11
I have never said anything negative about Senator Sanders and I will continue to do so. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #12
The problem I have with the OP is ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #56
Bernie sees the world through the prism of a class struggle. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #59
That is a point I have attempted to make ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #64
It's classic socialist* analysis DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #70
Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #82
But Bernie hasn't MADE that argument. Ken Burch May 2015 #91
Then He needs to make those points more forcefully./NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #95
I agree. Ken Burch May 2015 #98
Does Bernie have to reject class struggle to get your trust? Ken Burch May 2015 #85
No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #101
I can see him reiterating his commitment to the fight for social justice Ken Burch May 2015 #107
I make no such presumption. Ken Burch May 2015 #75
The OP is the opposite of true. It's sickening.. they do Bernie a huge disservice.. Cha May 2015 #134
OK, she starts with that strength. Ken Burch May 2015 #87
you can damn well bet sanders is looking at that 87% AA support and seeing it means something. seabeyond May 2015 #15
It doesn't mean he's made some horrible mistake. Ken Burch May 2015 #79
What do her poll ratings among straight white male voters mean? JTFrog May 2015 #42
This condescended to Strong Black Man approves of your response. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #58
No .... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #7
We wimmin folk ... NanceGreggs May 2015 #9
I know this is personal and out of the subject nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #24
And you have no idea ... NanceGreggs May 2015 #30
Well Nance you are wrong nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #32
In other words ... NanceGreggs May 2015 #36
Not quite nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #37
Ah, yes, quite. NanceGreggs May 2015 #39
Bernie is just as committed to all of that as HRC is. Ken Burch May 2015 #103
How you got ... NanceGreggs May 2015 #108
You implied, with no justification whatsoever, that I was being dismissive to women, poc's Ken Burch May 2015 #125
What about that spelling sets you off? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #51
I have no idea why it is jarring nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #57
Okay. So doe that translate beyond you? Or, is it specific to you ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #61
It mostly bothers older women nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #67
I wonder if some DUers have the slightest idea ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #47
Cut the crap, Nance. I've never treated you that way or treated women or poc that way. Ken Burch May 2015 #123
You "cut the crap". Cha May 2015 #137
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service FrodosPet May 2015 #132
HaHa! Cha May 2015 #136
Not what I'm saying. Ken Burch May 2015 #13
Post removed Post removed May 2015 #46
I think I love you. Just a little bit... Number23 May 2015 #126
+1000 giftedgirl77 May 2015 #133
I cant't believe that was deleted. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #141
I'm not surprised ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #142
I have heard of Bernie, I have researched Bernie and I know Hillary's record Thinkingabout May 2015 #60
So has this consistently condescended to Black man ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #86
This approach is working so well...Is it a wonder they keep using it?/NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #14
watch out, you will be accused of calling sanders a racist anytime and a whole lot of pro sanders seabeyond May 2015 #17
Actually he is telling folks nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #18
Yes. Most voters are low information voters ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #77
Yeah I see a problem here nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #83
I said MOST people at this stage are low-info voters. Ken Burch May 2015 #121
Not the first Bernie supporter to push that meme.. It's about time it's the last.. Cha May 2015 #135
I know, huh? ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #143
They're full of it.. any way to twist it and insult Clinton's supporters to make Bernie look better. Cha May 2015 #145
I'm becoming more and more convinced ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #148
I see what you mean but Jeeze! Cha May 2015 #150
"Bernie... has never been actively involved in trying to lock you out in the cold politically" NYC_SKP May 2015 #2
Oh Lord God Almighty give me strength! hrmjustin May 2015 #4
I need to have a conversation with Coyote. okasha May 2015 #66
I love when someone presumes to tell me what is good for me. hrmjustin May 2015 #71
Nothing in my OP said that. Ken Burch May 2015 #119
Anyone who has worked on a national campaign will tell you that polls are meaningless at Exilednight May 2015 #5
And the only thing I will add is nadinbrzezinski May 2015 #22
Believe that if you will. MohRokTah May 2015 #6
another thread lecturing those who don't know any better JI7 May 2015 #8
Exactly! What minorities and women think isn't important. DanTex May 2015 #10
Reminds me of when the Native Americans referred to the president as the Great White Father./NT DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #16
Wrong. Just that it's early days yet. Ken Burch May 2015 #21
May I have I please Have a list of the posters who asserted this. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #23
That's the implication behind those who keep bringing up the "social issues" thing Ken Burch May 2015 #29
Anybody that says Bernie is a racist, homophobe, misogynist, et cetera is just dumb. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #31
And it's equally dumb and unfair to argue that the OP insults people in those groups. Ken Burch May 2015 #40
you will have to ask the black community because i do not talk for them. i dunno. but, we seabeyond May 2015 #43
Loyalty isn't always easily understandable. Ken Burch May 2015 #112
bill clinton is not running. hillary clinton has an excellent record around the world, for women seabeyond May 2015 #113
She really does.. And, it's killin' 'em. Cha May 2015 #139
Okay we're getting to a teachable moment here ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #92
Agreed. I just added downthread Lilith Rising May 2015 #100
omg...If those aren't coded accusations that Bernie and his current core supporters are bigots seabeyond May 2015 #34
No ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #88
i suppose all of us challenging this crap will now be told we are calling sanders a racist? seabeyond May 2015 #19
You have nothing to challenge and Bernie hasn't given you any crap. Ken Burch May 2015 #25
"some sort of panicked assumption that Bernie will betray and ignore you?" seabeyond May 2015 #27
Economic justice benefits the entire Rainbow Coalition...and women...and LGBTQ Ken Burch May 2015 #35
economics does not trickle down to the social justice. so many times it has been told to you, by seabeyond May 2015 #38
And I didn't say that economic justice solves the problem of bigotry. Ken Burch May 2015 #45
it talks to the men in the party. not as much to women and POC and gay, because we also have social seabeyond May 2015 #53
Please don't speak for gay people Prism May 2015 #62
didnt we have a conversation a couple years ago, you insisting women must have an emtional seabeyond May 2015 #73
You have me very confused with someone else Prism May 2015 #80
And I agree with you that the fight against personal and social oppression needs to go on. Ken Burch May 2015 #65
i am a sander supporter. i did check website and not a social justice issue to be had. seabeyond May 2015 #72
I looked at his website and he highlighted Wall Street, $$ in politics and climate change, period. bettyellen May 2015 #94
Then email him and tell him to include the social issues as well. Ken Burch May 2015 #97
You really don't see how flip you sound with "just an oversight"? seriously not seeing how dismissive bettyellen May 2015 #102
I know it's important. Ken Burch May 2015 #104
Honestly, I think he fucked up and got off to a bad start. He's entirely focused on issues dear to bettyellen May 2015 #106
You'd have a point if there was a progressive alternative to Bernie. Ken Burch May 2015 #109
You're not doing Sanders any favors by trashing Hillary. So misguided- bettyellen May 2015 #114
Thread Winner. Sorry for the crappy prize Number23 May 2015 #127
if you are asking various groups to allow economic justice do the trick, we wont buy it. seabeyond May 2015 #44
I want to hear from him more on social issues. TDale313 May 2015 #93
Again, I am not making the argument that economic justice takes care of everything. Ken Burch May 2015 #96
You cannot claim any expectation of being taken seriously okasha May 2015 #90
If only those women,gays,latinos and african americans were sufrommich May 2015 #20
No...nothing like that at all. Ken Burch May 2015 #26
Are you smart enough to see through TM99 May 2015 #33
That was a horrible hit piece on a woman who's accomplishments sufrommich May 2015 #48
A hit piece? TM99 May 2015 #52
You took 2 years out of her life and ignored the rest. She was sufrommich May 2015 #63
A mole? TM99 May 2015 #69
Whatever,you want to run with "LaDavia Drane is a monster!"? sufrommich May 2015 #76
It is hard to take you seriously. TM99 May 2015 #84
Unbelievable. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #146
"Are you smart enough to see through" i guess you simply were not smart enough. and they do not seabeyond May 2015 #54
The smug comments about Bernie's kickoff crowd not having more poc Ken Burch May 2015 #68
You're comparing a few comments made on an internet forum sufrommich May 2015 #74
I agree that polls are not super important at this point MannyGoldstein May 2015 #28
I would reckon 90% of voters are low information at this point Prism May 2015 #41
"We're even getting faux minstrelsy upthread"? KittyWampus May 2015 #78
It's not hard to find Prism May 2015 #81
k&R marym625 May 2015 #49
Alert Results.. Segami May 2015 #50
For the record: marble falls May 2015 #55
As a gay man I am proud to support Hillary. hrmjustin May 2015 #89
It looks to me like the major objection to your post Lilith Rising May 2015 #99
I've deleted the last graph. Ken Burch May 2015 #110
Well, it wasn't really a suggestion as much as it was Lilith Rising May 2015 #111
The observation. Ken Burch May 2015 #124
Nope. Lilith Rising May 2015 #147
Did it ever occur to you that ... frazzled May 2015 #105
Apparently not.. "..she doesn't give a damn about the sisters, or poc, or LGBTQ.." He thinks Cha May 2015 #138
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #152
This isn't an accidental oversight. These simply aren't issues Sanders is passionate about in the wa seabeyond May 2015 #115
he believes it will only come as the result of economic equality. seabeyond May 2015 #116
frustrated with his fellow student activists, who were more interested in race or imperialism than t seabeyond May 2015 #117
Bernie is just as passionate about social justice as about economic justice. Ken Burch May 2015 #118
we do not see the passion, we do not hear the passion, and per the article, he does not have the seabeyond May 2015 #120
Sanders has an incredibly strong track record on social issues.... Violet_Crumble May 2015 #122
Really hard to find anything on his website- but I'm sure his people realize the gaffe. bettyellen May 2015 #128
Have you thought about clicking on the link I posted? Violet_Crumble May 2015 #129
I've not been impressed by the focus on economics which is what he pivots to in every discussion of bettyellen May 2015 #157
Bernie ignored immigration in what was one of the most importants speeches of his life. lunamagica May 2015 #130
The attack on HRC in this thread is odd. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #151
I know. When I read that she's "not addressing the issues" lunamagica May 2015 #154
Immigration is important to me. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #155
Ken, your OP is on the money and those who tried to twist your words deserve scorn. Scuba May 2015 #131
How do you know? the OP deleted the last paragraph and "apologized".. said it was going in a Cha May 2015 #140
I deleted it because it detracted from the larger point I was making. Ken Burch May 2015 #158
I have read and re-read this thread several times. DemocratSinceBirth May 2015 #144
Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2015 #153
K&R! - nt KingCharlemagne May 2015 #149
What is her lead among women, or people of color? muriel_volestrangler May 2015 #156
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