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In reply to the discussion: This message was self-deleted by its author [View all]Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)242. No, I'm not. Here's your VERBATIM quotation.
You wrote:
She's the one that kicked off the concept of universal health care....
I don't know how you intended the phrase "kicked off". The natural, plain-English meaning is that she initiated the concept. I admit that I added the "mountaintop" part, to satirize your view, but the substance was yours, not mine.
I mentioned Truman because I remembered him and his wife getting the first Medicare cards. I thought that FDR had preceded him but I wasn't sure. Checking it now, I find this summary from the History News Network:
Franklin Roosevelt's administration was the first to address the subject of government assisted health care. During State of the Union speeches in 1943-1945, Roosevelt spoke about universal health care, and Americans being covered from "Cradle to Grave." Bills were introduced to Congress during the Roosevelt and Truman administrations; no bill ever got out of committee. Every Democratic administration from Roosevelt to Johnson lobbied and tried to introduce some sort of government assisted health coverage from 1935 until Medicare's passage in 1965.
So, we have Presidents Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson addressing the issue. Johnson actually got Medicare enacted (when Hillary was 17 years old and probably not a major factor in that success). Against that, what you have to say for her is that she was the first to chair a national task force on the subject. Her chairing a task force didn't get one single person so much as an aspirin. In your quotation, you boldface the point that Truman wasn't successful in getting the program he wanted -- but, here's a newsflash for you, neither was Hillary. If "kicked off the concept" is somehow twisted to mean "got a bill through Congress", then neither Truman nor Hillary (nor Bill) deserves the accolade.
You'd be OK if you would just stick to the facts -- the Clinton Administration tried to do something on health care, Hillary played a leading role in the effort, she never seriously considered single payer, the task force she chaired came up with something that was instead like the later ACA in being much more oriented toward insurance through employment and through the private for-profit insurance companies, the effort failed and no bill was enacted, but it arguably helped keep health care issues in the public consciousness. I personally think that, with health care costs soaring and threatening Medicare's solvency, and with individual costs constituting the single most common cause of personal bankruptcies, something would have happened in 2010, with Democrats in power, even without Hillary's work in the 1990s. Still, you can make a colorable argument that her work helped pave the way for the ACA. That legitimate argument gets lost, though, if you insist on doubling down on "kicked off the concept" and try to reduce the whole subject to the chairing of an ultimately unsuccessful task force.
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It is not so much who says it - the real issue is - is it true. Anyone saying something about either
jwirr
May 2015
#217
Progressives are not in favor of censorship as you are. I just now read this post of yours:
Bluenorthwest
May 2015
#111
The fact that Cheese Sandwich refuses to provide a link to the page where he found the chart is
MADem
May 2015
#196
Thanks for the excellent point. Will the inaccuracy be ignored, accepted or defended? n/t
freshwest
May 2015
#147
It's ineffective to thinking people because it is not accurate. On trade, for example, Clinton has
Bluenorthwest
May 2015
#114
Uh she's not against TPP though. Pretty sure she also supported PNTR with China.
Cheese Sandwich
May 2015
#118
You need to provide a source for your chart, there--it looks like a rightwing ad from NEWSMAX. nt
MADem
May 2015
#191
It's just an unsourced graphic from the internet. If you disagree with it ok.
Cheese Sandwich
May 2015
#192
There is no such thing as "an unsourced graphic from the internet." Where did YOU FIND IT?
MADem
May 2015
#193
It doesn't compare anything--it's an invention by someone who isn't a Sanders supporter.
MADem
May 2015
#205
I went through the whole thing. It all seems true to me. Do you see some inaccuracy in it?
Cheese Sandwich
May 2015
#213
Oh, really? Well, then, why don't you "cruz' past post seventeen, and see how wrong
MADem
May 2015
#216
Are you arguing that any part of the chart is wrong, or are you attempting to make the source
merrily
May 2015
#77
I did not supply the chart, I would like to know the source to see if it is a valid source.
Thinkingabout
May 2015
#108
That's an interesting and cherry picked chart, that leaves off many other important issues
KMOD
May 2015
#17
The difference...Canada doesn't have a defense budget that takes up half their budget.
libdem4life
May 2015
#151
We could afford it right now if we eliminated the parasitic insurance companies.
Jackpine Radical
May 2015
#204
Well, you're right. I still get Democrat mixed up with Repub-Lite and I'm too
libdem4life
May 2015
#227
She's the one that kicked off the concept of universal health care back in the early 90s, and
MADem
May 2015
#33
+1. Truman did not ask for a task force, nor ask anyone to chair any national effort.
MADem
May 2015
#189
I don't know about HERE. Among the candidates, though, it's a different story.
Jim Lane
May 2015
#251
What Truman presented to Congress in 1945 was much closer to single payer than was Hillarycare. (nt)
Jim Lane
May 2015
#146
Which is probably why she donated to his Senate Campaign--something people hating on her ignore.
MADem
May 2015
#190
Isn't she though. Quite dangerous when she posts. *sound of airheads popping*
freshwest
May 2015
#80
Very well said, ANY claim about Hillary lacking on healthcare is totally absurd, she advocated for
Thinkingabout
May 2015
#115
I liken it all into an angry mob scenerio, I often wonder how people are shocked by
AuntPatsy
May 2015
#11
I have no doubt at all that this group and others are trolling sites to turn people
hrmjustin
May 2015
#5
They are petrified of her and I have no doubt they have their trolls out and about.
hrmjustin
May 2015
#13
Oh the irony of the NY Times pointing that out after running with that "Clinton Cash" bullshit. nt
SunSeeker
May 2015
#29
They get paid no matter what they push. Like Eddie Murphy vs. Duke brothers in 'Trading Places':
freshwest
May 2015
#86
I think a tell-tale sign is when people attack another candidate rather than build up their own
Cali_Democrat
May 2015
#39
I guess you didn't hear about the debate manipulation on Hillary's behalf. nt
daredtowork
May 2015
#256
Did you mean to address this to me? (I'm voting for the guy in my inobtrusive sig line.)
merrily
May 2015
#92
If you are a Hillary supporter, why can't you use her record to win her more favor?
davidn3600
May 2015
#117
Because the Hillary haters on the left refuse to acknowledge the positive aspects of her record.
geek tragedy
May 2015
#134
As Presidnt Obama would say, the professional right and the Hillary-hating left are in
geek tragedy
May 2015
#128
What I find most telling about it is the predictable contempt for the intelligence of voters.
woo me with science
May 2015
#156
If America Rising is evil and tweets that Clinton has connections to Wall Street...
Jim Lane
May 2015
#157
Meh. It's a tradition for Dems to destroy their candidates during the primaries.
Buzz Clik
May 2015
#176
Good point, and at the 1976 convention, it was near war between the Reagan and Ford delegations.
Buzz Clik
May 2015
#182
When someone says third way I get pissed because I assume they mean Hillary and because
hrmjustin
May 2015
#177
She is an incredibly popular Democrat, who is almost guaranteed to win the primary
MoonRiver
May 2015
#231
Based on what? She hasn't debated anyone yet and she hasn't been challenged
Exilednight
May 2015
#232
Again, comes down to name recognition at this point, get back to me a week before
Exilednight
May 2015
#240
Then why are they constantly targeting Hillary and leaving Bernie completely alone?
MoonRiver
May 2015
#230
Yes, she is. They would marginalize Bernie and destroy his Presidency in a few weeks...
stevenleser
May 2015
#258
Oh, so THAT'S why all the lefties are now blathering about Benghazi instead of TPP
eridani
May 2015
#202