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Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
89. Thanks for reminding me...
Mon Apr 13, 2015, 02:46 AM
Apr 2015

Here is the relevant portion from that PM, for public consumption:

> Yeah, that's an older thread -- It's pretty obvious by now that Snowden's original claim that he went through proper channels was bullshit, and when he got called out on it he retconned the issue into "Well it wouldn't have mattered anyway because the IG wouldn't have taken any action..." And when I see retroactive changing of story details (this is just one of several), interviews that contradict earlier interviews and other inconsistencies, it's natural for my brain to want to straighten them out -- And these past two years I've gotten tired of this "Snowden is a hero doing a heroic thing, so quit asking questions!", or "You're just a paid NSA troll!" (see sig), or "You're just an Obamabot trying to protect his dear leader!" pushback on DU and elsewhere just because I dare to ask about the parts of Snow-Wald's story that don't add up...
>
> I've kept up with this story pretty closely, so while I literally have hundreds of more detailed questions, I'll try to boil it down to 5-6 main ones...Granted, it's useless for me to ask DU since nobody here would know anyway -- Most of them can only truly be answered by an insider from Snow-Wald's cabal...But I continue to ask them on DU anyway, just to get people to *THINK*, if nothing else...
>
> 1. I want a full and detailed chronological timeline of Snowden's life from high school until he landed in Hong Kong...I want to know specifically who he worked for, when he worked for them, and what his specific job duties were..
>
> 2. I want to know why Snow-Wald have specifically made it a point to attack the Five Eyes Alliance (while frequently turning the alarmist hyperbole up to 11) while COMPLETELY ignoring Russia and China's crackdowns on internet freedoms...Case in point: Greenwald's screechy headlines to drum up maximum outrage over the NSA listening in on Merkel's cell phone (of course it came out later that the U.S. was just one of at least six countries listening in, since Merkel against all advice insisted on using an unsecured phone) and when the later story came out about Merkel listening in on our Secretary of State, Vice President, and the Turkish president's phones, there was complete silence from Snow-Wald and on DU...The Snow-Wald cabal has painted the U.S. and ONLY the U.S. as the bad guys for doing what every other developed nation does..
>
> 3. I want to know why Greenwald continually refuses to report on the corruption and abuses of his home nation of Brazil (which is a rhetorical question, since the self-styled "fearless" Mr. Greenwald knows he will get his car shot up Bonnie and Clyde-style if he starts kicking over the wrong rocks)
>
> 4. I want to know specifically what interactions Snowden has had with the Russian government -- I want to know how he got his "IT job" so quickly, while never stating exactly who he works for, what hours he works, his salary and what he does...I want to know how he affords his Moscow apartment, comfortable living, plus armed protection...And I want to know how he is the exception when he says he never cooperated with the Russians, since *every* intelligence defector they have ever gotten is heavily debriefed and mined for information...
>
> 5. I want to know *WHY* Snowden did it -- I swear to the gods I am so sick of him giving the same five basic quotes and talking points at every speech and interview...I am fucking sick and tired of him only giving access to interviewers known to be sympathetic, never asking him a question harder than "Can you please tell my audience why the NSA is bad, and just how brave and awesome you are??" I also want to know why Snow-Wald in their leaked files redact all the names involved -- I'd have thought personally that if you were alleging wrongdoing, you'd want to expose a paper trail of who signed off on what orders...
>
> 6. I know Snowden has an high-power attorney in Washington who at least was trying to negotiate with the Justice Department a transfer of custody (make no mistake, the Russians do "own" him for now, since his is way too valuable to simply walk away) and return to the U.S....I want to know the status of those secret negotiations, and I want to know exactly what "leverage" Snowden is negotiating with, since he has repeatedly said he gave all his files away to Greenwald and his media cabal...
>
> 7. I want to know why Greenwald has kept access to the cache so tight, along with why he has only shared with a very exclusive club of publications...I want to know why instead of regularly publishing he specifically holds off and times his stories for maximum public damage (yes, there was an easily identifiable pattern early on)...I want to know exactly what Pierre's $250 million investment in First Look Media is paying for, because it sure as hell isn't a competent, professional news organization that can produce regular content...The Intercept has been a glorified blog...It's not even an integrated media blog...(Granted, this is another question I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, but I have no way of proving it)
>
> 8. (This is really an extension of #2) -- For all the outcry over personal info and metadata collection, I want to know why Snow-wald have intentionally and specifically turned a blind eye to the culpability of Corporate America, the Telecoms and Silicon Valley...Not only have they ignored it, they have suppressed the issue anytime the discussion moved in that direction...I want an explanation from Greenwald on why he intentionally kept Google's name out of a data collection story in Pakistan -- Which pissed off Assange so much, he went on and named the person/company running that project...More importantly, I want to know why it is "whistleblowing" to expose legitimate operations against foreign targets...We spied on China, Libya, etc.? So fucking WHAT? That's what our people are *supposed* to do...Despite their claims, Snow-Wald never seem to have figured out that people have no inherent or legal right to *not* get spied on by a foreign entity...Because if that is the case, when does our class-action lawsuit against Russia-China-Israel start??
>
> Sorry it's a little disjointed...As you can tell, I've got much, much more than this (it's almost a borderline obsession) but off the top of my head these are the first questions I would personally ask Snow-Wald if I had the opportunity...I've stopped trying to ask these questions on DU -- Battle lines are drawn, the same crowds throws the same insults at each other (guilty as charged) while the discussion never gets me anywhere closer to finding out what I want to know...The well has kinda been poisoned, and by now everybody who has been keeping up with the story has permanently made up their mind on Snowden, Greenwald and spying, one way or the other...


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This is the part where I get my credibility bronzed... I defy *anybody* to tackle these with properly documented answers...And I've got plenty more questions should anybody get past these...

Just to add the cherry on the sundae, I'll just leave this here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aJAN6hOKZV-wat_3xZU1QXymZzLpRlgOOu2tKrBV87s/edit?hl=en&forcehl=1

(no, it's not my work and I'm not taking credit for it)

It doesn't protect your rights, MineralMan Apr 2015 #1
The individuals who abused these programs and spied illegally on allies and the American people... 951-Riverside Apr 2015 #2
Okay but which individuals besides Snowden have acted illegally? ucrdem Apr 2015 #19
Depends on how you interpret the 4th Amencment to the Constitution of the United States. merrily Apr 2015 #60
Because let's face it. Savannahmann Apr 2015 #74
This is the problem with Snowden and Manning qazplm Apr 2015 #3
thanks for posting this irisblue Apr 2015 #4
Mercy me. He outed more US spying. Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #5
His greatest crime was humiliating Obama LittleBlue Apr 2015 #12
Bingo! QC Apr 2015 #16
That appears to have been a primary objective, yes. ucrdem Apr 2015 #22
No, that was not his primary objective. The knee-jerk emotional reaction is simply a sideshow cui bono Apr 2015 #24
I wouldn't call a RW disinfo stunt criticism, and I wouldn't idolize the perps. nt ucrdem Apr 2015 #25
So? What does that have to do with Snowden? n/t cui bono Apr 2015 #26
Probably very little operationally. ucrdem Apr 2015 #27
Who is this "voluntary poster boy of a disgusting RW hit job" of which you speak? cui bono Apr 2015 #30
It'll come to you. ucrdem Apr 2015 #31
I don't think so. Help me understand your assertions if you would like a discussion. n/t cui bono Apr 2015 #32
And by the same token Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #33
What is an 'emoprog'? AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #48
Here ya go. This is from 2012 and yes it's meant as an insult. neverforget Apr 2015 #50
Wow AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #70
That's just lovely. City Lights Apr 2015 #71
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #40
+1000 marym625 Apr 2015 #43
Nailed it!...nt Jesus Malverde Apr 2015 #51
I think that is a response to the belittlement. joshcryer Apr 2015 #53
Indeed. It's no coincidence that the biggest Snowden attackers are almost, 1 for 1, the biggest Marr Apr 2015 #65
Oh, no..Obama supporters?! *Gasp* R B Garr Apr 2015 #72
I didn't say there's anything wrong with being a fervent Obama supporter. Marr Apr 2015 #73
So, I was just as disgusted over exposing Valerie Plame as I am with this latest revelation Sheepshank Apr 2015 #104
You mean the Obama that talked about the spy community months before Snowden went to China? uponit7771 Apr 2015 #98
Not sure why you believe this information would discredit him in any way, I see nothing that AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #6
I'm just calling out hypocrisy as I see it Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #34
I don't see it? AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #45
Don't worry... MattSh Apr 2015 #46
Snowden COULD HAVE done all of that and not be a traitor at the same time. uponit7771 Apr 2015 #99
I honestly don't see how any of this tells anyone anything they didn't already know. leveymg Apr 2015 #7
Actually, it was the guys who wrote the article that exposed the info Oilwellian Apr 2015 #8
heh grasswire Apr 2015 #14
Anchors Aweigh. Octafish Apr 2015 #21
The more both sides know about each other (within reason), the safer we all are. leveymg Apr 2015 #44
Ever read Stanislaw Lem? Octafish Apr 2015 #76
Just the book Solaris. Saw both film versions - loved them both. leveymg Apr 2015 #84
Trust me. Octafish Apr 2015 #85
I get that same disoriented feeling every time I read anything by leveymg Apr 2015 #86
Looky at what I found on Google books: A Stanislaw Lem Reader. leveymg Apr 2015 #88
" . . . just hide embarrassing stuff the Russians already know from the American public." Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #80
Putin is Sid! leveymg Apr 2015 #82
With 20 bucks and the secret signature that was released?! uponit7771 Apr 2015 #100
The article's author asks in the Comments: "What is the damage"? It's already in the Public Domain. 99th_Monkey Apr 2015 #9
Have you read Blind Man's Bluff? We'very been spying and hacking neverforget Apr 2015 #10
That book is strictly fiction. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #81
You do realize that many books get published without approval of the military right? neverforget Apr 2015 #87
Do you have anything other than your opinion on this? I really want to know neverforget Apr 2015 #92
A good question. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #11
^THIS^ dixiegrrrrl Apr 2015 #18
"What does that mean?" It means billions of $$ for Apple, Microsoft, closeupready Apr 2015 #36
Agreed. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #62
Tell me again how a submarine in the Red Sea is performing missions vital to KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #13
you are a glutton for punishment grasswire Apr 2015 #15
How do you figure? Ain't nobody said shit yet to refute it Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #35
Yes. They have. Only you are too willfully blind to see their answers riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #38
Thanks for reminding me... Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #89
You've buried your questions in a ridiculous thread that most folks have tuned out riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #96
Please point to any posts in this thread or any other thread Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #106
nnnnnnnooooo, no he isn't....not with me at least. Exposing the government in the dumbest way possib uponit7771 Apr 2015 #101
First of all, you need to tell us what the military intelligence secret was that you think muriel_volestrangler Apr 2015 #39
Nothing big, but Annapolis got a SIGINT upgrade. joshcryer Apr 2015 #54
If you mean it got an upgrade in 2014, then that can't come from Snowden muriel_volestrangler Apr 2015 #57
It got the upgrade before deploying (as per article). joshcryer Apr 2015 #63
If it's already public knowledge, why is he credited for the "leak?" Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #90
You're the one who has christened this article a 'leak', and credited it to Snowden muriel_volestrangler Apr 2015 #91
Two good questions that will be two hundred percent ignored uponit7771 Apr 2015 #102
You're kidding? G_j Apr 2015 #42
They can't say shit about it that means anything. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #52
You've been refuted by the fact that people post pictures of the Obama family! alcibiades_mystery Apr 2015 #66
Thanks for exposing the Snowden Lies & Hypocrisy for the 2 years, Blue Tires. So appreciate it. Cha Apr 2015 #93
I don't have a problem with this JonLP24 Apr 2015 #17
So, when the Navy said in 2008 the Annapolis supported national security muriel_volestrangler Apr 2015 #20
Ruh roh! So what does this mean? Does the Navy now need to flee the country? Rex Apr 2015 #28
I'm tempted to rec this thread for the replies alone. cui bono Apr 2015 #23
I'll answer your first question. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #29
sunlight is the best disinfectant.... mike_c Apr 2015 #37
Really? "Phase Zero"?????? bvar22 Apr 2015 #41
Like John Oliver pointed out, the American people don't care. joshcryer Apr 2015 #47
You should start a "Big Brother is watching us!" fan club AgingAmerican Apr 2015 #49
The important issue is not what was leaked, but whether it was already known or not and how much it merrily Apr 2015 #55
Coincidentally, 2014 was also the year that Sony, Target, iCloud, Spotify, e-bay, Nieman Marcus, ucrdem Apr 2015 #56
tin foil hat time. neverforget Apr 2015 #58
Tin foil hat or smear tactic? merrily Apr 2015 #59
"2014: the year of retailers getting hacked over and over again" ucrdem Apr 2015 #61
It was after all, Snowden who bungled the openssh implementation that provided a gaping exploit Warren Stupidity Apr 2015 #64
Who benefits from a vast collection of data on American citizens? riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #69
Couldn't possibly be that corporations didn't protect their neverforget Apr 2015 #77
Not these corps, no. Do you know where Target for example gets its name? ucrdem Apr 2015 #78
Well, they did take it very casually. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2015 #105
It was also the year that Robin Williams died! Marr Apr 2015 #68
Aw, you're full of it, Blue_Tires. Snowden only turned over info to 'responsible journalists'. randome Apr 2015 #67
In Russia. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #79
Unfortunately, he Can be full of Shite and he is.. but, obvisously doesn't matter to his fan club. Cha Apr 2015 #94
Oh, so now you're going to believe anything Greenwald says? randome Apr 2015 #95
Well, we have to get along with everyone here, they are our neighbors. Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #97
lol uponit7771 Apr 2015 #103
Yes because the United States has an inalienable right to Savannahmann Apr 2015 #75
Who gives a flying fuck? Good. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #83
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»So now it is official -- ...»Reply #89