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Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
25. Exactly right. Just as most European countries didn't have a sovereign debt problem
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 11:47 AM
Apr 2012

until they bailed out the banks. Spain certainly didn't. Had Iceland as a sovereign bailed out the insolvent banks with public money, it too would have a sovereign debt problem now.

There's more on this here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/111611743

... If we are forced to pay back from taxes all the vast sums that have been sucked out of public spending and given to the banks, the country will not recover for a generation.

The economic ‘plans’, forced on us without debate, are all based on the banks returning large parts of the money they have taken from us. This means, whether we like it or not, we all have to hope that the banks make profits as quickly as possible. We have all been ‘kettled’ into having to hope and work for the largest possible growth in world trade and finance. We have to hope that the rich get richer, and quickly. The lords of finance and their servants in politics decided this for us.

There never was any discussion or debate of possible alternatives when the financial crisis began. It was declared, and universally agreed (always a bad sign) that the problem was liquidity, not solvency. That meant the only answer ever proposed was to provide liquidity at all costs. Liquidity being our money to cover the massive losses they had incurred. This, we were told, wasn’t really a cost at all, but ‘an investment’. An investment which would pay back all the loaned, borrowed and printed money long before the debts came due through reinflated levels of growth and asset value...


And here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/111611741

The problem (one of them at least) is that while our leaders are banking on growth to save us, the banks are not. They are banking instead, on fear. Our leaders keep thinking if they ‘save’ the banks then the banks will help save us by investing in growth. They fail to understand that ‘invest’ is really not something high up on the global bank’s ‘to do’ list. I spoke at length recently to bankers in The City who deal in investing in raising money for Small and Medium businesses. They were unequivocal – it is getting harder not easier to raise money for such investment. The big banks and big funds are looking for short term speculative returns not slow investment returns.

When you have large and growing losses from bad debts you cannot and will not recoup and recover on the basis of wise but slow investment returns. The worse your previous debt mountain is, the greater the pressure to pursue exactly the sort of high-risk speculation that got you in trouble in the first place. If it is a choice between investing in Spanish factories or buying Spanish debt or selling CDS on that debt, the ‘smart’ bonus seeking money goes for the latter every time.

The brokerage Carmel whose study I have quoted is a good example. On page 9 of their study they say,

We began buying Spain CDS in Q4 2011… 3.5% of notional per annum –effectively an option premium on the default of Spain.

Should the Spanish crisis flare up in 2012 as we expect, we can generatea 300% return on the annual premium



300%! Investing in small and medium businesses or a potential 300% speculating on Spanish default. You choose.

Banks are banking on fear and the volatility fear causes. They are not banking on or helping to support growth. They will do the politically necessary minimum and no more. The big banks are buying up what they call fixed income instruments (bonds and other debt backed paper) and at the same time offering CDS insurance on the same. Just like they bought and sold protection on mortgages...

... The money we have given to the big banks to bail them out via all the TARPs, EFSF’s and Bond buying programmes have not been invested in growth. They have gone into betting on failure and default.


Austerity is Killing Europe [View all] marmar Apr 2012 OP
But Republicans would love to try it here. polichick Apr 2012 #1
It's already going on here. State & local government spending is down 6% since the recession HiPointDem Apr 2012 #8
You're right - and right-wing governors are having a field day! polichick Apr 2012 #10
Well they have no access to money. What else can they do? dkf Apr 2012 #2
Pretty much this 4th law of robotics Apr 2012 #4
The article suggests a few things to do just1voice Apr 2012 #5
If a country is already in trouble with the bond market they have zero chance dkf Apr 2012 #6
There is one country that did just that nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #7
Awesome... fascisthunter Apr 2012 #13
Iceland is still on the hook for their banks. dkf Apr 2012 #14
Correct me if I'm wrong. badtoworse Apr 2012 #20
Exactly right. Just as most European countries didn't have a sovereign debt problem Ghost Dog Apr 2012 #25
In retrospect, other countries, such as Ireland, might have done better by letting the banks fail badtoworse Apr 2012 #28
Iceland was never in the Euro muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #22
Ironically they are thinking of getting in. dkf Apr 2012 #32
what the heck does the world bank have to do with this? cali Apr 2012 #9
They can start by doing what Iceland did. It's a little late, but it's what they should have done sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #21
Correction: The EURO is killing Europe. Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #3
Correction: Germany is killing Europe. Germany is the coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #15
something else is killing Europe also. Racism. nt. nanabugg Apr 2012 #11
The "New Dems" will be telling us how great austerity is fascisthunter Apr 2012 #12
I hate to see this happen. The hardship that was a part of the settlement in the WWI treaty was jwirr Apr 2012 #16
How else do you expect the "limits of growth" to look? bhikkhu Apr 2012 #17
i expect them to look like the ruling class cutting back on their private jet use. not ramping HiPointDem Apr 2012 #18
Inasmuch as the ruling class is the government bhikkhu Apr 2012 #19
It is slowly killing us as well - TBF Apr 2012 #23
Please help me understand how the US could implement EU-style austerity measures. shcrane71 Apr 2012 #24
Here's an example of how austerity HERE is backfiring on Conservatives upi402 Apr 2012 #26
Where the hell are you getting that nonsense from? former9thward Apr 2012 #27
please read the black parts upi402 Apr 2012 #29
Thank you for your patronizing no information reply. former9thward Apr 2012 #30
Yep, time for the Europeans to rise up and get rid of those misguided Cleita Apr 2012 #31
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