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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
98. Obama is just plain WRONG about America's readiness to enter into these trade agreements.
Fri Jan 2, 2015, 04:48 PM
Jan 2015

Obama, Hillary, most of the people who negotiate these trade agreements on behalf of the US have never actually lived for any protracted period within the economy and culture of any country that is succeeding in trading in the world and keeping a positive trade balance.

I have. I have lived in Germany and Austria among other countries and not with American pay but on the economies of the countries I have lived in.

America is not ready for free trade. Countries like Austria and Germany that can compete in international trade are organized. Their economies are not rigidly planned but they have a sense of national direction with regard to economic, industrial and environmental development.

On the economic side, I recall when we lived in Austria, a small country with a relatively well trained, well educated workforce. The news media wrote and pundits and intellectuals discussed the challenges that would face Austria in a world economy. This was maybe 30 years ago. The consensus at that time (and it was correct) that Austria should focus on developing technical capacity that would allow its industry to produce on a small scale special products that would be needed. Austria developed a national strategy for dealing with free trade. Has the United States anything of that sort? Have we even ever, as a nation, discussed or thought about what our niche or role might be in an international economy? If so, I who watch the news pretty carefully, completely missed it.

The workers in developed nations that are showing positive trade balances are trained and educated. They enjoy universal health care and secure pensions. There is a sense of confidence in the nation's ability to take care of its people while competing in the world. These nations view training and education as a national duty to the generations to come. In Austria we enjoyed universal half-day kindergarten (meaning per-school in the US) starting at the age of three. Children were prepared to start first grade. The task of preparing a child for life was not left to the haphazard abilities of a mother who could be troubled by anything from health problems to alcoholism to drug addiction. Working mothers did not have to worry about whether their child would be challenged and assisted to grow up in the important pre-school years. A higher education in Germany is harder to qualify and prepare for (or at least was when I lived there) but does not throw the educated person into years and years of debt.

As a result of the better organized society and the sense of shared obligation on the part of the body politic for the well being of members of their society, the industrialized countries that are maintaining their standards of living in spite of "free" trade (countries that include Sweden for example), countries that have a national strategy for competing in world trade are not just strong in terms of fighting the rest of the world but within them in terms of security within their countries. They do not have the problem with police brutality, for example, that we have. It isn't "us against them; fend for yourself" in the countries that are prepared to compete in the world economy.

I could say a lot more but my point is that we are entering into trade agreements like the Three Stooges entered into haunted castles. We have no national direction. We are just laying ourselves open to be battered and find ourselves in bed with the wrong partners. We are setting ourselves up to be victimized.

As for the advantages of free trade, the American trade balance speaks for itself. It's criminally high.

I know a lot of rich people will make out like bandits with the TPP. But that is what they are bandits.

I say this as one who has lived in the world. The TPP will ruin America. We are not prepared for it. We are a nation as divided as at any time since the Civil War. I seriously doubt that America as a nation will survive if we enter into yet another trade agreement. And as I understand it the TPP is only one of the trade agreements being negotiated and agreed to at this time.

It would be best for us to amend the trade agreements we have and focus on trying to have a national economic strategy -- not a rigid plan or anything approaching a rigid plan -- but a national strategy. And before we get into these international trade agreements, at the very least, we need to have a consistent national tax policy that ends the destructive practice of allowing one state or on town or one county to give tax breaks to lure companies to establish plants or businesses in their area. We don't even have one national industrial policy and we are entering into these trade agreements. We will end up a fractured, seriously divided country with one part of the country competing against the other.

These trade agreements pose a great threat to our national security -- greater than terrorism quite possibly. We just are not united enough as a country when it comes to our economy to be entering into trade agreements with other countries. We first need to come together about our economic future here before we lay ourselves open to the products and competition from countries far better organized in this area than we are.

We don't live in the late 19th or mid-20th centuries any more. We need to wake up and smell the smokestacks.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-says-he-willing-to-defy-democrats-on-his-support-of-trans-pacific-partnership/2014/12/03/25edcaf4-7b30-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.htmlwr]

Why do you ignorant people want jobs in America?!?! PeteSelman Jan 2015 #1
when he disappoints, its massive. roguevalley Jan 2015 #33
Kick.... daleanime Jan 2015 #2
"Don't fight the last war. You already have." What war was that? NAFTA? Autumn Jan 2015 #3
Insulting, isn't it. And this "trade" deal has a LOT more to it than imagined worker and job djean111 Jan 2015 #8
+100 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #18
He should educate us instead of calling us ignorant. Let us see what's in it Autumn Jan 2015 #54
I thought the same thing. Curmudgeoness Jan 2015 #63
The Constitution gives our Congress, that is all future Congreses, the authority JDPriestly Jan 2015 #76
We NEED HILLARY! ONLY SHE CAN IMPOVERISH OUR GREAT NATION PROPERLY! Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #4
. Autumn Jan 2015 #5
+100 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #15
Yeah, And ALL HER Ties To Wall Street... ChiciB1 Jan 2015 #81
+10000 JDPriestly Jan 2015 #105
Here's a Washington Post article on Obama's comments... PoliticAverse Jan 2015 #6
Well, he's made that statement before, about being willing to defy Democrats. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #9
+ The Whole Thing Octafish Jan 2015 #22
He'll be defying republicans (a majority oppose TPP) more than Democrats (60% support it). pampango Jan 2015 #40
If 60% of Democrats support the TPP, Maedhros Jan 2015 #56
I suspect even if both had not been signed that it would only have slowed the decline a bit but it cstanleytech Jan 2015 #68
The majority of "Democrats are woefully ignorant" because they do not agree with you. Ouch! pampango Jan 2015 #75
Just because a large percentage of Dems support it, don't make it right. lark Jan 2015 #86
Your statement about Europe is not correct. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #108
Posters such as Papango care nothing for any of what you've posted. Maedhros Jan 2015 #112
If not "woefully" ignorant, then willfully so. Maedhros Jan 2015 #111
60% is a meaningless number without context Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #121
That seems in line with how the system now works, doesn't it? sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #78
The Republicans don't support it because THEY DON'T SUPPORT ANYTHING THE PRESIDENT DOES. nm rhett o rick Jan 2015 #131
... treestar Jan 2015 #19
Thanks for the details, treestar. freshwest Jan 2015 #26
Happy New Year freshwest! treestar Jan 2015 #114
Same to you, treestar. Many changes this year. freshwest Jan 2015 #130
He needs to explain how it's different than NAFTA. When NAFTA was rammed thru rhett o rick Jan 2015 #45
1 through 10 all need proof and if Obama really thought any of them true treestar Jan 2015 #113
You're arguing in vain, treestar YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #126
So do you support the TPP? Or will you even commit? At least treestar will debate while rhett o rick Jan 2015 #128
A lot of people have looked at parts of the TPP and written about the damage that will be done. rhett o rick Jan 2015 #127
By the way I respect you for at least trying to debate this issue. No one else who supports the TPP rhett o rick Jan 2015 #129
He's either drinking the kool-aid lark Jan 2015 #79
What Obama said quoted from WaPo Article: KoKo Jan 2015 #35
Words Fail Me Demeter Jan 2015 #38
I think 'traitor' is the word you're looking for FiveGoodMen Jan 2015 #71
Is this Free Republic? YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #124
He is Lucy with the football. Go ahead Charlie Brown, this time we are telling the truth. nm rhett o rick Jan 2015 #49
Benefits for whom? Guess I will stay "ignorant" mmonk Jan 2015 #7
The American workers ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #65
Yeah, now we compete with anyone in the world... kentuck Jan 2015 #107
Actually ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #135
maybe it benefits the foreign slave labor? fbc Jan 2015 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #10
Do you have a more favorable Aerows Jan 2015 #80
kick 840high Jan 2015 #132
Now you did it Autumn Jan 2015 #134
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jan 2015 #140
Given that this thing has been enlightenment Jan 2015 #11
Exactly. Let us see the proposal. progressoid Jan 2015 #28
exactl;y if we are ignorant of the proposal it is only because you have shrouded it hollysmom Jan 2015 #36
AAAaaaarrrrgggghhhh! Populist_Prole Jan 2015 #12
+100 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #14
'what else can they say at this point? "Fuck you, you're getting this"?' FiveGoodMen Jan 2015 #74
so tell us what's in the trade deal obama, maybe we wouldn't be so ignorant if we knew what was NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #13
Point! a palpable hit, to go all Wm. Shakespeare Demeter Jan 2015 #39
Liar for the 1%ers. SamKnause Jan 2015 #16
Do you think he's purposely doing that? treestar Jan 2015 #17
Are you putting words in someone's mouth? mmonk Jan 2015 #20
The OP did that regarding Obama. treestar Jan 2015 #21
I would agree he is worried. mmonk Jan 2015 #30
I see him as believing the American economy is just about the 1%, Wall Street, Dow Jones, djean111 Jan 2015 #25
I respectfully disagree treestar Jan 2015 #115
With Obama aspirant Jan 2015 #117
Here's what he's doing. He's calling those who oppose it 'ignorant'. Here's how he can sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #27
I thought aspirant Jan 2015 #118
If it's so great, he could release the proposed agreement for all to see. progressoid Jan 2015 #32
It is not just suspicion. Secrecy is inherently undemocratic. salib Jan 2015 #64
You are right, though it can't be secret in the end treestar Jan 2015 #116
Insulting AND condescending. A twofer. SammyWinstonJack Jan 2015 #23
Ignorant of the benefits? How about ignorant of the specifics! hughee99 Jan 2015 #24
Sorry, no can do. You see, we're ignorant and wouldn't understand Buns_of_Fire Jan 2015 #41
Exactly. Teach us ignorant peons just how beneficial this agreement will be. rhett o rick Jan 2015 #62
Please explain to me again. ... 99Forever Jan 2015 #29
Why does it have to be in secret? Lifelong Protester Jan 2015 #31
Probably for the same reason the climate agreement with China, the diplomatic agreement with Cuba, pampango Jan 2015 #46
"Submitted for ratification" aspirant Jan 2015 #122
People who have seen their jobs moved to China are not ignorant of anything. Vinca Jan 2015 #34
what jobs moved to china in the past 8-10 years? Sunlei Jan 2015 #43
If they said India, would it have made any difference to you? n/t hughee99 Jan 2015 #55
IT management jobs you mean or businesses that offer customer service(by phone)? Sunlei Jan 2015 #66
The post you replied to (not mine) mentioned jobs offshored to China, hughee99 Jan 2015 #72
No, I agree with what President O said about 'offshoring' in that article. Sunlei Jan 2015 #83
Yes, and while the president is right that "that horse is out of the barn" on low wage labor, hughee99 Jan 2015 #102
Is that Aerows Jan 2015 #82
discussion. I read the article and noted Pres. Os audience for the 'meeting'. Sunlei Jan 2015 #87
He's going to need folks Aerows Jan 2015 #91
It still may suck as the Corps have owned the USA forever & plenty of Politicians lie to Pres. O. Sunlei Jan 2015 #95
Either President Obama is the most brilliant Aerows Jan 2015 #99
The correct question is . . . what jobs haven't? Vinca Jan 2015 #119
The "All or Nothing" people *are* ignorant of the benefits of trade. But it does make good anti-O Sunlei Jan 2015 #37
Weren't you one of the Aerows Jan 2015 #85
sorry, I don't understand what you meant Sunlei Jan 2015 #88
Yes, I get that. Aerows Jan 2015 #93
You're to kind, :P Sunlei Jan 2015 #96
Horseshit. Odin2005 Jan 2015 #143
Please proceed Mister president bahrbearian Jan 2015 #42
to long to answer, with a line or two "benefits of global trade" Sunlei Jan 2015 #50
My husband's grandfather had a cattle business that was destroyed by NAFTA. liberal_at_heart Jan 2015 #136
Um, I'll trust the AFL-CIO before him on trade policy. closeupready Jan 2015 #44
AFL CIO are not against this new trade agreement, they're working with the group. Heres a link Sunlei Jan 2015 #90
On the TPP: "the publicly available information is concerning for workers" PoliticAverse Jan 2015 #120
yes, it is "concerning for workers" that's why I think its a good thing both Unions are active stake Sunlei Jan 2015 #133
Okay. Fine then release the document so all of us can read it. And IF there are any benefits for jwirr Jan 2015 #47
To make it even more special he said it while sitting next to Jim McNerney pa28 Jan 2015 #48
I think by the last war he means NAFTA. former9thward Jan 2015 #51
Anything can be stopped Demeter Jan 2015 #97
Move on from the last war aspirant Jan 2015 #123
Sorry Mr. President, you are tragically wrong about TPP. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #52
Yes he is and it's a damn shame. AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #57
the blue dogs are leaving big red turds behind... TPP is the biggest fuck you to workers whereisjustice Jan 2015 #53
Return to tariffs? Trillo Jan 2015 #58
Mr. President, we're not stupid. We ARE aware of the benefits of the TPP. Maedhros Jan 2015 #59
Absolutely. This monstronsity of corporate welfare is not about trade, & will not benefit Americans, Faryn Balyncd Jan 2015 #103
"Globalization won't be a bloodless process" and the corporations will need more of your's now TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jan 2015 #61
Would like to see Obama actually address Sen. Sanders 10 points against the TPP! EndElectoral Jan 2015 #67
The whole thing is secret, so if it is so beneficial why not explain that by showing the deal? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #69
And pensions were stolen as companies were bought, gutted out and e-mailed to China JDPriestly Jan 2015 #70
He did not call 'you' ignorant Sunlei Jan 2015 #77
If you think that calling anyone with Aerows Jan 2015 #89
It doesn't matter if Obama said that or not Jack Rabbit Jan 2015 #84
Sorry, Mr. President, but no sale. Brigid Jan 2015 #92
I defended Bill Clinton to the bitter end on NATA because I KNEW a democrat would defend us Autumn Jan 2015 #101
Me too, Autumn. To my everlasting shame, me too. hedda_foil Jan 2015 #138
That was pretty much the end Puglover Jan 2015 #144
Goldman Sachs' pet president gregcrawford Jan 2015 #94
Obama is just plain WRONG about America's readiness to enter into these trade agreements. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #98
You said Munificence Jan 2015 #139
So, Mr. President, we would be far sadoldgirl Jan 2015 #100
Well he's gone FULL 1%ER!!! DeSwiss Jan 2015 #104
They ALWAYS play the false choice game.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2015 #106
Let's remember, he's politically free now. Broward Jan 2015 #109
Don't think of it as "free to screw over the people who got him his current job" but rather hughee99 Jan 2015 #110
Well, the Democrats, when they come up one short for SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #125
For starters, what IS the exact quote? That would help. Hekate Jan 2015 #137
We gambled on him d_b Jan 2015 #141
Fuck you, too, Mr. President. Odin2005 Jan 2015 #142
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