General Discussion

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)

90. So this is an issue of pay?

Sun Nov 16, 2014, 09:30 PM

Nov 2014

I'm confused as to where labor laws and sexual morality laws overlap. Seems to me the consensus on the legalization argument say that sexual morality shouldn't be regulated, no one is arguing that prostitutes should be paid less than minimum wage.

By your argument if we can regulate minimum wage, we should be able to constitutionally restrict anything we want, including abortion.

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Prostitutes Are People, Not Criminals' by Belle Knox [View all] LostInAnomie Nov 2014 OP

And also elected officials......nt Guy Whitey Corngood Nov 2014 #1

There is something off-putting by being lectured to by a 19 year old. AngryAmish Nov 2014 #2

It's just another law where the state tells you what you can do with your own body scarystuffyo Nov 2014 #3

The Nevada model for legalization works well bluestateguy Nov 2014 #4

Washoe and Clark counties definitely are against legalizing PumpkinAle Nov 2014 #72

She speaks the truth LittleBlue Nov 2014 #5

Absolutely, 100% correct Niko Nov 2014 #6

That's just it, there is no simple, easy solution. Every single one has its flaws and drawbacks. nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #7

You just gave the simple, easy solution Niko Nov 2014 #9

Legalization has its downsides too. See the Netherlands and Germany for examples. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #10

I say keep it illegal yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #32

Morals should be something you personally have. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #44

I should not have this in my community. yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #47

But those problems you're talking about aren't 'moral' problems. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #65

Legal prostitution is much better for the women PumpkinAle Nov 2014 #76

Agreed. Studies show most prostitutes were sexually abused as kids, whathehell Nov 2014 #229

So paying for sex is immoral? Based on what objective stanadard exactly? phil89 Nov 2014 #56

Religious nonsense Niko Nov 2014 #70

Do you mean Hawkins? yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #8

You mean the panic that someone, somewhere might be having fun? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #12

I resemble that remark. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #13

I don't think it's wise to think of it as fun treestar Nov 2014 #200

How about thinking of it as a job? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #245

It's not a job treestar Nov 2014 #250

I agree that we should legalize drugs. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #254

well, that and concern for the countless women victimized by an industry founded geek tragedy Nov 2014 #25

From someone with actual experience in the industry: NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #86

Because college sophomores at elite schools speak geek tragedy Nov 2014 #112

Throw the pimps in jail. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #116

Throw the johns in jail and we're talking. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #122

See, that's the part we are never going to agree on. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #143

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #243

LOL! I'm not a college sophomore at an elite school. LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #157

I know your views. I disagree with them. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #158

OK then LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #162

.... Behind the Aegis Nov 2014 #183

... LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #215

... Aerows Nov 2014 #247

Respect doesn't mean agreement, as you noted. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #188

And the way to accomplish that is to make it legal, LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #214

No, even where legalized the essential geek tragedy Nov 2014 #216

New Zealand doesn't have that problem LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #231

Just out of curiosity... LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #259

Better question is if sex is legally just a job geek tragedy Nov 2014 #260

I thought you might bring that up... LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #262

Asdf geek tragedy Nov 2014 #263

so they all have the same views? treestar Nov 2014 #202

well... LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #213

As if that's not different from any other kind of "work." treestar Nov 2014 #223

It's work LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #233

You're ARGUING FOR legalization Niko Nov 2014 #167

I believe Rachel Lloyd knows that she is arguing against legalization. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #168

they kind of would say that treestar Nov 2014 #201

Oh, right...She'd definitely know from her ivory tower in Durham... Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #237

Ya, we all know that only men who are deeply sexist want legal prostitution. Threedifferentones Nov 2014 #225

Rehabilitating the public image of pimps and traffickers geek tragedy Nov 2014 #234

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #242

Agreed on all counts. hifiguy Nov 2014 #239

Decriminalize it ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #14

Why throw the johns in jail? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #15

Nordic model ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #17

That's not really an answer. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #18

They're having sex. Niko Nov 2014 #22

Prostitution as we know it in part, comes from the bible ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #26

Straw man treestar Nov 2014 #203

Because it's a broken system. ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #23

Same reason we don't let people get waterboarded or tortured for money or geek tragedy Nov 2014 #24

That's ridiculous. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #27

hey, if they consent to waterboarding, who are you to object? geek tragedy Nov 2014 #28

It's ridiculous that torture is where your mind goes when you hear about people having sex. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #31

Sex is great. Prostitution is an abomination. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #37

Paternalistic nonsense. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #43

what insight do you have into the minds of johns? geek tragedy Nov 2014 #45

She has a hell of a lot more insight than you do. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #48

yes, the star of "Facial Abuse" has great insight into how prostitution and pornography geek tragedy Nov 2014 #50

Way to infantilize a woman! LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #51

she was sexually assaulted in her first porn film geek tragedy Nov 2014 #55

Why did you forget to bold this line... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #66

I suspect it was intentionally ignored... NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #77

She's a major in gender studies davidn3600 Nov 2014 #58

I'm not going to say she's not a feminist. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #60

Did you not read the article? Niko Nov 2014 #67

She is not in prostitution nor does she have any basis for speaking on geek tragedy Nov 2014 #159

Ah yes, trot out the libertarian card when no valid argument exists LittleBlue Nov 2014 #63

Not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you Niko Nov 2014 #69

"Toss the tricks in jail." NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #16

Tell you what ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #20

Tell you what... NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #33

Well well ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #36

You mean that some people choose to do it and I don't? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #38

No ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #95

"Have a good rest of the day." NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #96

Yeah, funny how that works n/t kcr Nov 2014 #73

Well, in a consensual environment, that's their choice. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #53

Exploitation and degradation is not consenting adults having fun. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #21

Who are you to tell people they are being exploited and degraded? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #29

So why not allow people to be waterboarded or tortured for the amusement of others? geek tragedy Nov 2014 #30

Is there some kind of book of strawmen and false equlvilances somewhere... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #41

so now you do believe that paying people to be waterboarded should be legal? geek tragedy Nov 2014 #42

Horseshit. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #46

where prostitution is legalized and regulated, sex trafficking and off-the-books geek tragedy Nov 2014 #49

You seem to think that women are the only people that work as prostitutes. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #59

Murder, and child abuse, and arson, and cancer are always going to exist too. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #61

Murder, child abuse, arson, and cancer are inherently harmful. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #68

For money. It's the money that is the problem. kcr Nov 2014 #78

How is sex any different than any other form of physical labor? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #82

Ignoring how absurd and reductive your argument is kcr Nov 2014 #85

So you've got nothing then? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #94

Prohibition is a form of regulation n/t kcr Nov 2014 #99

Yeah, one that only compounds and intensifies the problems. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #101

According to the pro legalize it crowd n/t kcr Nov 2014 #103

What protections do prostitutes have now? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #105

It's clear you haven't put much thought into it, either kcr Nov 2014 #106

Horseshit. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #155

I don't know, is sex for money immoral? I havne't mentioned morality. kcr Nov 2014 #160

No, you didn't say it was immoral. You just compared it to torture and selling children. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #166

Only in that they're forms of exploitation. Rolly polly eyes. kcr Nov 2014 #169

Is exploitation immoral? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #170

Hahahahaha kcr Nov 2014 #171

That's not an answer. Is exploitation immoral? Yes or no? LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #172

What is the sound of one hand clapping? n/t kcr Nov 2014 #173

It's a simple question. Either you think exploitation is immoral or you don't. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #174

I'm not the one dodging. I've made it perfectly clear how I feel on the topic n/t kcr Nov 2014 #179

Look, I know you think you're playing gotcha kcr Nov 2014 #177

A wordy dodge is still a dodge. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #180

What am I dodging? kcr Nov 2014 #181

You are refusing to answer if you think exploitation is immoral. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #184

No, I was refusing to answer a question designed as a gotcha kcr Nov 2014 #185

Aaaaaaand there we have it. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #189

Ok. And? kcr Nov 2014 #191

You are entering the converation viewing prostitution as immorality. LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #195

Not like a puritan kcr Nov 2014 #219

Show some courage and tell me why you're even asking the question kcr Nov 2014 #187

It's legal where I live, and prostitutes definitely have it much better than in the US... Violet_Crumble Nov 2014 #196

There you go, confusing the issue by including hifiguy Nov 2014 #240

That is not what is really happening treestar Nov 2014 #206

"If it were such fun, they wouldn't need the money... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #211

Why would you have a difference between professional and personal when it was all fun? treestar Nov 2014 #224

Money does complicate everything it touches. That much is undeniable. n/t nomorenomore08 Nov 2014 #97

Only if you don't care about the women who are bought and sold. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #113

My mother in law made that same argument, except to make abortion illegal joeglow3 Nov 2014 #110

Yes, champion of women's rights that you are. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #115

Just a champion of logic joeglow3 Nov 2014 #117

One need not accuse you of being hostile to women's rights. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #121

Yeaaaaaah. Saying both parents deserve the same rights is gross sexism joeglow3 Nov 2014 #123

You were not arguing for equal rights. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #124

Nope. That was your distortion so you could feel justified. joeglow3 Nov 2014 #164

No that was exactly what you were advocating--having doctors grab the baby out of the mother's arms geek tragedy Nov 2014 #165

That is not pushing your way into a woman's medical procedure joeglow3 Nov 2014 #175

Single mother is sole legal parent and guardian. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #178

I agree. If baby's mommy wants to pull a dick move, pity the child joeglow3 Nov 2014 #182

Yeah, you got no issues with women. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #186

What a sick view you have joeglow3 Nov 2014 #190

You keep on referring to non- existent rights geek tragedy Nov 2014 #192

Keep telling yourself that. It is a dick move plain and simple joeglow3 Nov 2014 #193

Um, maybe women don't want their ex around geek tragedy Nov 2014 #194

We are not talking about the most vulnerable time joeglow3 Nov 2014 #221

Thank you for confirming that geek tragedy Nov 2014 #232

That's not true... Violet_Crumble Nov 2014 #208

Where is 'here' and what is your evidence? nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #217

Australian Capital Territory... Violet_Crumble Nov 2014 #218

Don't get sucked in. joeglow3 Nov 2014 #222

If someone consents to be waterboarded, why is it any of your business? Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #54

how about OSHA? How about good old fashioned corporal punishment geek tragedy Nov 2014 #57

Because people can be coerced into that "choice" kcr Nov 2014 #93

Coercion used in sex is rape. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #111

Then I'm assuming you're fighting for the right to work for 50 cents an hour. kcr Nov 2014 #118

Why is porn legal but prostitution isn't? Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #126

The answer to your question is freedom of speech and both participants are paid kcr Nov 2014 #134

Its still having sex for money. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #136

But it isn't a transaction with the person the porn star is having sex with kcr Nov 2014 #138

I just gave you an example of where the man is paying the women for sex in porn. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #139

If a man was paying the woman directly for sex, it was prostitution n/t kcr Nov 2014 #142

But its perfectly legal. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #144

A porn business, yes. kcr Nov 2014 #146

So basically, you are telling me you are ok with people selling sex for money as long... Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #149

What I'm telling you is I'm ok with transactions that don't exploit kcr Nov 2014 #150

Really? treestar Nov 2014 #207

Go try it ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #34

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about this. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #80

It's not so hard to understand why it isn't hard to not take the choosey choicey arguments of kcr Nov 2014 #81

Okay, I'm not even going to pretend to understand your reply. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #84

That might explain some things n/t kcr Nov 2014 #87

A) It's illegal, B) It wouldn't pay well enough. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #252

No Im not gonna try it. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #130

Did LadyHawkAZ Nov 2014 #241

Thank you for that reply. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #244

They know they are treestar Nov 2014 #204

The conditions most street prostitutes work in... LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #210

I once read an article written by a woman who worked at a legal brothel in Nevada kcr Nov 2014 #220

If you type "pigs" often enough, it adds credibility to your reply. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #35

some truths are self-evident. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #39

I couldn't agree more. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #40

Does that make prostitutes "whores"? Niko Nov 2014 #71

No. The johns are the problem. not the exploited. nt geek tragedy Nov 2014 #125

Same folks wanted to prosecute women in France who wore burkas LittleBlue Nov 2014 #64

If someone wants to pay for consensual sex, why is it even any of your business? Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #52

Great reply. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #74

If someone wants to pay employees 1 an hour why is it any of your business? kcr Nov 2014 #75

So this is an issue of pay? LittleBlue Nov 2014 #90

Of course they overlap. Yes, it's the pay. kcr Nov 2014 #92

Abortion involves medicine, which is regulated by the government LittleBlue Nov 2014 #127

So let's do away with all regulation? kcr Nov 2014 #128

Let's do away with regulation involving consenting adults LittleBlue Nov 2014 #131

Okay. So, bye bye minimum wage! n/t kcr Nov 2014 #133

Why do you keep saying that? LittleBlue Nov 2014 #135

Because you seem to think that choice ends the discussion kcr Nov 2014 #137

I want everyone reading this to know kcr is lying LittleBlue Nov 2014 #141

I didn't lie. You said that in context of a discussion about regulation involving pay. kcr Nov 2014 #145

I destroyed your misrepresentation with my actual quote LittleBlue Nov 2014 #151

No, you took my quote out of context to make it look like I was misrepresenting you kcr Nov 2014 #152

Bull LittleBlue Nov 2014 #154

But prostitution isn't just what two people do privately kcr Nov 2014 #161

some people think choices are made in a vacuum. just because someone "chooses" something Scout Nov 2014 #255

Except in Germany they found that when they legalized prostitution, trafficking kept right on going mythology Nov 2014 #100

Of course its not going to completely go away. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #107

Pay for? You are leaving out the person paid. treestar Nov 2014 #209

I wouldn't type meaningless things into a computer for 8 hours a day for free. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2014 #246

Not unsafe on the same level treestar Nov 2014 #249

Not quite Blue_Adept Nov 2014 #251

Anecdotal evidence? Like this? NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #88

Interesting. H2O Man Nov 2014 #19

I couldn't agree more stupidicus Nov 2014 #62

I would like to call particular attention to the second paragraph. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #83

Which is anecdotal bullshit ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #89

Well, there are a few statistics in that article too. NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #91

I did read the article. ismnotwasm Nov 2014 #102

Your last sentence should really make them think kcr Nov 2014 #104

"And I could toss that question right back at you." NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #108

Do you realize it isn't just the prostitute who gets the money? kcr Nov 2014 #114

As I posted in another reply: NaturalHigh Nov 2014 #119

Well, that's what's being argued. Throw the pimps in jail. That's what prostitution is. kcr Nov 2014 #120

That's not what is being argued... davidn3600 Nov 2014 #147

Why not put johns in jail? kcr Nov 2014 #148

Because I dont think it solves anything at all to jail adults who engage in consensual sex davidn3600 Nov 2014 #153

I don't think we should jail adults for consensual sex, either. kcr Nov 2014 #163

So you want the police to entrap people into committing crimes? Yavin4 Nov 2014 #248

What? kcr Nov 2014 #256

How else are you going to catch the "Johns"? Yavin4 Nov 2014 #257

How do you figure? n/t kcr Nov 2014 #258

How else are you going to identify who the "Johns" are? Yavin4 Nov 2014 #261

AAAAAAND there we have it LittleBlue Nov 2014 #129

Except no one is arguing for jailing for consensual acts kcr Nov 2014 #132

+1 Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #238

It's important to remember that Belle Knox is an entertainer. LeftyMom Nov 2014 #98

To quote the late great George Carlin: Initech Nov 2014 #109

And Belle Knox was one very abused person. Wella Nov 2014 #140

"We should especially not conflate the sex industry with the abuses of human trafficking" Recursion Nov 2014 #156

She's wrong about human traffickers. joshcryer Nov 2014 #176

Yep. Netherlands too. Recursion Nov 2014 #197

Same, I'm for it, but it needs a good social welfare system. joshcryer Nov 2014 #199

well the johns are criminals then treestar Nov 2014 #198

"Why does a porn actress have any interest in wanting other women to have to serve as prostitutes?" LostInAnomie Nov 2014 #205

I agree.nt bravenak Nov 2014 #226

That's like making it legal to sell drugs but illegal to buy them davidn3600 Nov 2014 #235

If it were legal it would be easier to catch the criminals. Kablooie Nov 2014 #212

are you suggesting that adults should be permitted to have consensual sex regardless of the motive Douglas Carpenter Nov 2014 #227

IMO, they are people with a history of abuse. They're also exploited. MADem Nov 2014 #228

It's not like anyone is going to change their minds here Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #230

Just want to add, most human trafficking is outside of sex work Yavin4 Nov 2014 #236

since when are criminals NOT people? Tuesday Afternoon Nov 2014 #253