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underpants

(182,803 posts)
57. Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Thomas Paine, Monroe, Madison, Adams, Hamilton.... any questions?
Mon Apr 16, 2012, 07:08 PM
Apr 2012

Deism and the founding fathers

Deism was a religious philosophy in common currency in colonial times, and some Founding Fathers (most notably Thomas Paine, who was an explicit proponent of it, and Benjamin Franklin, who spoke of it in his Autobiography) are identified more or less with this system. Nevertheless, several early presidents are sometimes identified as holding deist tenets, though there is no president who identified himself as a deist. Although George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and John Tyler are often identified as having some degree of deistic beliefs,[7] Washington in particular maintained a life-long pattern of church membership and attendance, and there is conflicting testimony from those who knew him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_United_States_Presidents


List of Presidential religious affiliations (by President)

For each president, the formal affiliation at the time of his presidency is listed first, with other affiliations listed after. Further explanation follows if needed, as well as notable detail.
1.George Washington– Deist/Episcopalian[12] Main article: George Washington and religion
2.John Adams– Unitarian,[13] originally Congregationalist[14] The Adamses were originally members of Congregational churches in New England. By 1800, most Congregationalist churches in Boston had Unitarian preachers teaching the strict unity of God, the subordinate nature of Christ, and salvation by character.[15][16][17] Adams himself preferred Unitarian preachers, but he was opposed to Joseph Priestley's sympathies with the French Revolution, and would attend other churches if the only nearby Congregational/Unitarian one was composed of followers of Priestley.[18]
Adams described himself as a "church going animal".[14]

3.Thomas Jefferson– no specific affiliation[19][20] Main article: Thomas Jefferson and religion Jefferson was raised Anglican and served as a vestryman prior to the American Revolution,[21] but as an adult he did not hold to the tenets of this church.[19]
Modern Unitarians consider Jefferson's views to be very close to theirs. The Famous UUs website[22] says: "Like many others of his time (he died just one year after the founding of institutional Unitarianism in America), Jefferson was a Unitarian in theology, though not in church membership. He never joined a Unitarian congregation: there were none near his home in Virginia during his lifetime. He regularly attended Joseph Priestley's Pennsylvania church when he was nearby, and said that Priestley's theology was his own, and there is no doubt Priestley should be identified as Unitarian. Jefferson remained a member of the Episcopal congregation near his home, but removed himself from those available to become godparents, because he was not sufficiently in agreement with the Trinitarian theology. His work, the Jefferson Bible, was Unitarian in theology..."
In a letter to Benjamin Rush prefacing his "Syllabus of an Estimate of the Merit of the Doctrines of Jesus", Jefferson wrote: "In some of the delightful conversations with you, in the evenings of 1798–99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other."[23]

4.James Madison– Deism/Episcopalian[24] Although Madison tried to keep a low profile in regards to religion, he seemed to hold religious opinions, like many of his contemporaries, that were closer to deism or Unitarianism in theology than conventional Christianity. He was raised in the Church of England and attended Episcopal services, despite his personal disputes with the theology.[25]

5.James Monroe– Deism/Episcopalian Monroe was raised in a family that belonged to the Church of England when it was the state church in Virginia, and as an adult attended Episcopal churches.[26]
"When it comes to Monroe's ...thoughts on religion", Bliss Isely comments in his The Presidents: Men of Faith, "less is known than that of any other President." Monroe burned much of his correspondence with his wife, and no letters survive in which he discusses his religious beliefs; nor did his friends, family or associates write about his beliefs. Letters that do survive, such as ones written on the occasion of the death of his son, contain no discussion of religion.[26] Franklin Steiner categorized Monroe among "Presidents Whose Religious Views Are Doubtful".[9]
Some sources classify Monroe as a deist.[26]

6.John Quincy Adams– Unitarian[27] Adams's religious views shifted over the course of his life. In college and early adulthood he preferred trinitarian theology, and from 1818 to 1848 he served as vice president of the American Bible Society.[28] However as he grew older his views became more typically Unitarian, though he rejected some of the views of Joseph Priestley and the Transcendentalists.[28]
He was a founding member of the First Unitarian Church of Washington (D.C.).[28] However he regularly attended Presbyterian and Episcopal services as well.[28]
Towards the end of his life, he wrote, "I reverence God as my creator. As creator of the world. I reverence him with holy fear. I venerate Jesus Christ as my redeemer; and, as far as I can understand, the redeemer of the world. But this belief is dark and dubious."[28]

Same Link

You can beat fundies over the head with this,.... lastlib Apr 2012 #1
Yep, all logic and truth fails with fundies ... best to just write them off as prehistoric. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2012 #2
This is a zero sum game for many on both sides. Kaleva Apr 2012 #3
Yes, BOTH sides are equally impervious to evidence MNBrewer Apr 2012 #12
Yep Kaleva Apr 2012 #15
that's the impression i get from this thread. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #37
oh frickin' please. cali Apr 2012 #4
1797 Treaty of Tripoli hobbit709 Apr 2012 #9
Did you actually read the writings of Madison and John Adams JDPriestly Apr 2012 #17
Fundamentalism hadn't been invented when the forefathers signed the Constistuition. kwassa Apr 2012 #20
I have read Jefferson's correspondence with Adams on this issue JDPriestly Apr 2012 #35
Priestly invented soda water. kwassa Apr 2012 #63
From your link Major Nikon Apr 2012 #24
Actually, George Washington was quite religious and certainly Christian.... Moonwalk Apr 2012 #26
George Washington never identified himself as a Christian Major Nikon Apr 2012 #28
You are trying to define yourself to victory, and that... Moonwalk Apr 2012 #30
You keep ignoring what I wrote and instead wish to debate what I didn't write Major Nikon Apr 2012 #31
the Creator vs. the Christians freefaller62 Apr 2012 #33
Many of the founding fathers were either deists or were very sympathetic to deism Major Nikon Apr 2012 #39
Ethan Allen for example flamingdem Apr 2012 #66
and yet hamilton insisted his wife should believe in God. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #38
Belief in god does not make one a Christian Major Nikon Apr 2012 #40
do you think the god he wanted her to believe in was something other than the christian god? HiPointDem Apr 2012 #41
Hamilton was married in 1780 Major Nikon Apr 2012 #43
all your "guesses" are predictated on your own faith, and must be taken on faith. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #44
Excuse me Major Nikon Apr 2012 #48
I think that's an overreaction. Maybe I was trying to be too clever in phrasing, but all I meant HiPointDem Apr 2012 #50
They were Deists underpants Apr 2012 #56
Jefferson was not a Christian in the usual meaning of the word. eomer Apr 2012 #25
in private letters Jefferson refers to himself as "Christian" (1803),[2] "a sect by myself" (1819), HiPointDem Apr 2012 #42
That's why I said it the way I did. eomer Apr 2012 #45
what's the usual meaning of the word? in my world, "christian" refers to anyone from the fundie HiPointDem Apr 2012 #46
It's not a "stupid" distinction to those who push the meme. eomer Apr 2012 #47
But the faith of the fathers is irrelevant. What's relevant is their faith in separation of church HiPointDem Apr 2012 #49
It's not irrelevant - it is one of the lies they use in their campaign to establish a religion. eomer Apr 2012 #52
It's not worth debunking when it's an unwinnable pissing match that distracts from publicizing HiPointDem Apr 2012 #61
I think it is worthwhile to point this out to people who claim that Jefferson was a Christian... eomer Apr 2012 #68
You are defining a Christian as a follower of Christ. In that sense, many deists would be JDPriestly Apr 2012 #64
Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Thomas Paine, Monroe, Madison, Adams, Hamilton.... any questions? underpants Apr 2012 #57
Five founders who were skeptical of organized Christianity and couldn't be elected today! yortsed snacilbuper Apr 2012 #5
How does one break the faith argument? longship Apr 2012 #6
This comes to mind, "The God Spot," but I certainly doubt it will bring RKP5637 Apr 2012 #10
Not sure of the neurology on that longship Apr 2012 #11
actually, there is, it's called the God Nodule and it's a specific cerebral locus. nebenaube Apr 2012 #59
Okay. longship Apr 2012 #60
Please Define "Fundamentalist" freefaller62 Apr 2012 #34
Now you are making a strictly rhetorical argument longship Apr 2012 #51
Religion vs. Governmental Philosophy freefaller62 Apr 2012 #53
That is the crux of the problem longship Apr 2012 #62
The prohibition against murder and theft is not unique to the Christian and Jewish religions. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #65
Well the Bill of Rights/parts of constitution were borrowed from Iroquois confederacy - not Kashkakat v.2.0 Apr 2012 #7
No, they weren't Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #8
It's both from common law but influenced by the Iroquois form of government as JDPriestly Apr 2012 #18
No, it wasn't Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #19
That's a feel-good popular myth with no factual basis. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #13
No use trying to reason with religious people. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #14
Yep, it's just a lost cause. Also, "if" they had divine knowledge with a capital T, many of RKP5637 Apr 2012 #16
Most forms of organized religion require one to abandon reason Major Nikon Apr 2012 #29
Thank You For Posting This. Left Coast2020 Apr 2012 #21
Thank you! I'm pleased you're finding it helpful! RKP5637 Apr 2012 #22
Why does it sadden you? Daniel537 Apr 2012 #54
And even if they were they were not in favor of having an official national church. They were for jwirr Apr 2012 #23
Yes, they were Christians, but the problem with this argument from Fundies is.... Moonwalk Apr 2012 #27
No, they weren't Christians Major Nikon Apr 2012 #32
+1 HiPointDem Apr 2012 #36
Jefferson and Adams did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Read their correspondence. JDPriestly Apr 2012 #67
Well, Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves and enjoyed raping the female ones. Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #55
Many were christians TNLib Apr 2012 #58
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