General Discussion

riqster

(13,986 posts) Thu Oct 16, 2014, 11:16 AM Oct 2014

To All the Aholes who are Insulting the Flying Ebola Nurse: Shut Your F*ing Faces. [View all]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2014/10/16/to-all-the-aholes-who-are-insulting-the-flying-ebola-nurse-shut-your-fing-faces/

I haven't seen this type of tripe on DU as yet, but have heard it and seen it elsewhere.

Source info at the link.

Seriously, shut the f***ing f*** up, you stupid f***ing f***ers. That woman put her life on the line, played by the rules, was lied to by her employer and our government, and you s***sacks are insulting HER??? Jesus f*** ing Christ on a gurney, what a**holes you are.

How about blaming Thomas Eric Duncan, who lied about having contact with Ebola on his travel documents? He put hundreds of people at risk, ferchrissakes. Had he not lied, none of this would have happened.

How about blaming the numbnuts and nimrods at Texas Health South, who first discharged Mr. Duncan, and then made their staff care for him without proper protective gear for TWO F***ING DAYS, thus exposing dozens more people to Ebola?

Better yet, Blame the f***ing CDC for lying about hospitals being ready, fumbling the ball repeatedly, and then allowing Ms. Vinson to fly, after she did the right thing and called them to be sure it was OK?

Come on. Amber Vinson is the ONLY person in this mess who is NOT to blame. But you s*** on her and give the guilty parties a pass. Shut it, until you get enough brain cells to be able to say something other than stupid f***ing s***.

275 replies

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Highlight:

To All the A**holes who are Insulting the Flying Ebola Nurse: Shut Your F***ing Faces. [View all] riqster Oct 2014 OP

I agree in spirit. merrily Oct 2014 #1

Nurses work very hard and they often take the brunt of mistakes LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #37

If I saw something to blame for, I probably would. I don't see it, though. merrily Oct 2014 #48

kiss up, kick down - doesn't that explain so much. LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #75

Yep. It sure does. Thank you, fumesucker! merrily Oct 2014 #83

Ms. Vinson is a Registered Nurse with either a Bachelor of Science and an Associate Degree in DhhD Oct 2014 #79

Are you a holder of the same credentials? riqster Oct 2014 #87

She was sick and likely terrified, so she asked the supposed government experts merrily Oct 2014 #89

After she flew to Ohio. wcollar Oct 2014 #107

Your own post disproves "There is no way a reasonable person who had been exposed to ebola.... merrily Oct 2014 #118

PS, trying for personal responsibility is something one does about his or her own behavior. merrily Oct 2014 #157

She was not sick, no signs of anything wrong with her ... 99.5 is a normal tempreature for a woman uponit7771 Oct 2014 #116

I agree about the blame, but 99.5 may not be normal for her. merrily Oct 2014 #130

According to webmd it's normal for temp to go up and down 1deg... 98.6 is average not static number uponit7771 Oct 2014 #133

Again, my own experience is very different. What counts for purposes of this thread is what merrily Oct 2014 #146

Frieden's got to go, else the buck stops at President Obama's desk. Sorry, that's how it goes KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #140

She's not going to spread it to anyone treestar Oct 2014 #163

I largely agree with you. Here's the problem as I see it. Frieden's first response KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #177

By 99.5 I know I am sick. Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #232

She followed the advice of medical professionals. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #98

Yep Dorian Gray Oct 2014 #114

EXACTLY! The CDC should be giving test RIGHT NOW to everyone who was in her situation uponit7771 Oct 2014 #135

The test does not work right away Tweedy Oct 2014 #254

This message was self-deleted by its author Lars39 Oct 2014 #260

Exactly wcollar Oct 2014 #101

Where are all the Ebola infected passengers on Duncan's flight? MontyPow Oct 2014 #123

So what is the CDC's excuse. Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #126

+1 uponit7771 Oct 2014 #207

Thank you, riqster! Our socialist friends put it well...''Ebola in America'' Octafish Oct 2014 #2

Bravo! I tend to look somewhat askance at the Trotskyist WSWS but on this their KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #10

But, but, but .... we gotta make a profit! Stonepounder Oct 2014 #46

Nice post! Oughta be an OP. riqster Oct 2014 #61

+1 merrily Oct 2014 #233

+ 1 lunasun Oct 2014 #253

I'm not going to blame Amber Vinson solely, but I really have to question her judgement. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #3

You would have to ask her. littlemissmartypants Oct 2014 #6

Maybe it really is denial. I don't know. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #17

I can say that from my experience we littlemissmartypants Oct 2014 #18

Cognitive dissonance Chico Man Oct 2014 #56

Could well be. It makes as much sense as anything else. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #66

She had the fever on the flight home, why did she fly there in the first place? uppityperson Oct 2014 #76

99.5 is NOT a fever... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #185

You keep posting that, but it doesn't make it any less true that she was worried KitSileya Oct 2014 #199

Its fact, there's nothing wrong with posting that she had no signs she was sick and followed rules.. uponit7771 Oct 2014 #201

You picked out 1 word of my post to reply to. How about the rest of it? uppityperson Oct 2014 #225

Not blaming her but I, too, questioned her judgement. Catherine Vincent Oct 2014 #8

Yes, I feel sorry for her and I hope she makes a full recovery. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #14

No one.. sendero Oct 2014 #24

99.5 is NOT a fever for a woman!! uponit7771 Oct 2014 #70

99.5 is NOT a fever... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #9

But she was monitoring her temperature, and she was concerned enough about it to call the Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #13

Then that means she goes to quarantine for jogging? ... cause that's what could uponit7771 Oct 2014 #20

And I would assume that, AS A NURSE, she'd be able to tell if her temp increase Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #25

No, not at all... a 1deg temp rises could be from ovulation to pregnancy to mestrual period for a uponit7771 Oct 2014 #38

Sigh. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #41

What?! 99.5 isn't even a temerature, the whole premise of her having signs is dead wrong I don't car uponit7771 Oct 2014 #45

"the whole premise of her having signs is dead wrong" LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #55

+1, the cdc cleared her because there was nothing wrong. 99.5 is normal for a woman NOT showign uponit7771 Oct 2014 #63

-1 LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #77

Taking your temperature every single day HockeyMom Oct 2014 #117

My youngest has huge temp swings, as does my wife. riqster Oct 2014 #223

She was monitoring her temp because CDC told her to. riqster Oct 2014 #84

99.5 is not necessarily elevated. merrily Oct 2014 #138

Doesn't matter if it is normal for women. KitSileya Oct 2014 #147

Not necessarily. merrily Oct 2014 #152

How do you know the temp was in connection with the CDC call? My understanding is she just called... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #186

Did you read the quote in the post to which you replied? KitSileya Oct 2014 #193

99.5 is NOT a fever for a woman!! In connection to means she called BECAUSE of the temp not called a uponit7771 Oct 2014 #198

Doesn't matter Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #22

Again, I'd be willing to bet good money that NONE.. NONE of those cargivers signed up for a "...live uponit7771 Oct 2014 #39

Those caregivers didn't have to sign up for it - public health demands it from them. KitSileya Oct 2014 #58

"..Those caregivers didn't have to sign up for it -..." lol... that's great to say after the fact!!! uponit7771 Oct 2014 #69

Anyone who comes into contact with an ebola victim is forced to do it. KitSileya Oct 2014 #95

WHO is says its 42 days now... and " everyone he came into contact with had to limit their contact . uponit7771 Oct 2014 #99

WHO says it's 42 days to KMOD Oct 2014 #110

Thx, so basically these people got to sit out life for a month and half until the REAL "all clear".. uponit7771 Oct 2014 #113

No, the incubation period is still 21 days KMOD Oct 2014 #124

Oh, for crying out loud. KitSileya Oct 2014 #119

Where did you read she was worried about her temp? She called teh CDC to see if she could travel uponit7771 Oct 2014 #127

I might get contagious and infectious mixed up (English is my second language) KitSileya Oct 2014 #143

The news stories say that she wore protective gear. merrily Oct 2014 #166

That she knew wasn't good enough. KitSileya Oct 2014 #190

None of that is fact, only your supposition. merrily Oct 2014 #200

Follow the links in my OP. riqster Oct 2014 #191

But but but!! Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #73

Hey, if you just want someone to blame she's an easy target but given the facts of the matter there uponit7771 Oct 2014 #78

Yes - it isn't the temperature itself, but the rise of it that is the concern. KitSileya Oct 2014 #104

I agree on the RISING temp, there's no proof that she called the CDC in connection with her temp uponit7771 Oct 2014 #214

+1 LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #168

There's a tiny little part of me that wishes every R.N., LPN and Nurse's Aide would KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #148

Damn skippy. Serve the bashers right, it would. riqster Oct 2014 #197

She signed up to be a nurse Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #178

Yes, ... I agree.. take responsibility after being FULLY informed.. .FULLY... I'm STILL thinking uponit7771 Oct 2014 #181

Exactly. Even without a fever her actions were irresponsible. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #19

I agree with your post. SoapBox Oct 2014 #21

I can understand the emotional pull on her to attend the wedding but sh*t happens and CTyankee Oct 2014 #40

She wasn't attending a wedding. She was planning her wedding, which is to take place Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #43

oops, I thought she had gone TO a wedding... CTyankee Oct 2014 #139

There was nothing wrong with her, 99.5 is a normal temperature for a woman ... why would she take uponit7771 Oct 2014 #54

Well, I've been a woman for 67 years and my 'normal' temp isn't the snappyturtle Oct 2014 #121

Yes, that's what webmd said... 98.6 is the AVG temp... human body temp is not a static number uponit7771 Oct 2014 #187

Because it's the right thing to do! Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #153

It's funny out here. peace13 Oct 2014 #158

No, I know. I can't believe it. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #271

Why did she travel? Because she was told it was OK to do so. riqster Oct 2014 #42

No, not "why did she travel?" Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #44

The same answer. Your tendentious questions are not impressive. riqster Oct 2014 #53

Tendentious. I congratulate you on learning a new word. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #64

No answer, huh? riqster Oct 2014 #71

What was the question? Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #74

I am so glad I wrote my OP. riqster Oct 2014 #93

You are certainly proud of your vocabulary, I'll give you that much. Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #241

I'm pleased that you were unable to refute my argument. riqster Oct 2014 #243

Deflections? Sure, that's the ticket! Sheldon Cooper Oct 2014 #244

Further proof. Have a splendid evening. riqster Oct 2014 #249

She is not an epidemiologist. At every step, she did what experts told her to do. merrily Oct 2014 #170

Just so. riqster Oct 2014 #195

PLEASE pm me if you get the zeal to grind this sick, obedient woman to dust, merrily Oct 2014 #205

I haven't a clue as to the origin of the hatred towards her. riqster Oct 2014 #216

Only thing I can think of is that it shifts blame from the CDC to this poor soul. merrily Oct 2014 #218

Fumesucker wrote a post on the phenomenon. Maybe the reasoning matches. riqster Oct 2014 #221

The "Kiss up, punch down" post, or were you thinking of another fumesucker gem? merrily Oct 2014 #229

That one. riqster Oct 2014 #234

When it comes to a registered nurse who did everything she was supposed to do, merrily Oct 2014 #236

Point. They're full of shit regardless. riqster Oct 2014 #237

Or full of agenda. merrily Oct 2014 #238

who is letting them off the hook? Skittles Oct 2014 #256

As you can see from my posts on this thread, that is not my opinion of Vinson. merrily Oct 2014 #263

The really strange thing to me, is who would feel like flying? treestar Oct 2014 #209

True. Her temp was below the margin, and she had no other symptoms. riqster Oct 2014 #222

aw there's no such thing as shared blame, Sheldon! Skittles Oct 2014 #255

It's obvious to me that the hospital was not as firm with the ones who were exposed SoCalDem Oct 2014 #270

Not only that but what message is being sent to future caregivers? When ebola comes your way run? uponit7771 Oct 2014 #4

yeah, that's called public health ProfessorPlum Oct 2014 #32

No, just that health care givers should be given the choice of lifestyle... I'm sure uponit7771 Oct 2014 #34

I think it's a bit different: this is because her employer was incompetent and negligent. riqster Oct 2014 #47

Take the thought one step further. peace13 Oct 2014 #169

She DID know the protocol. That is what you're missing. riqster Oct 2014 #183

I think you covered most of the bases. peace13 Oct 2014 #165

First I would get HC Givers the choice if they want to be involved in the restrictions, give them uponit7771 Oct 2014 #172

I would ask if anyone out there has passed along a virus unintentionally world wide wally Oct 2014 #5

I don't think the question is, have you ever unintentionally passed along a virus? Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #30

"Even though you knew better"? riqster Oct 2014 #51

Not only that, there was technically no signs of anything wrong with her. 99.5 is not a fever uponit7771 Oct 2014 #52

Truth. How many of those whipping snark at her know Thing One about medicine? riqster Oct 2014 #57

+1, but but... some talking head claims that 99.5 is a fever for a woman and DUr's take it like it's uponit7771 Oct 2014 #60

She acted responsibly and professionally. Good luck to her. riqster Oct 2014 #65

amen uponit7771 Oct 2014 #72

You might want to rethink that certainty. Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #257

It is a fever for me. Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #228

With all due respect, no she didn't. This is a matter of basic common sense. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #142

Crap. Unless you are a nurse, medical practitioner or epidemiologist, you have no business throwing riqster Oct 2014 #167

See #178. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #182

Ah, but before writing my OP, I DID consult with experts. riqster Oct 2014 #219

Ok then, we can agree to disagree. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #240

I would say that I consulted medical professionals instead of projecting my assumptions riqster Oct 2014 #242

Just saw the news that all people exposed to Duncan Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #261

Link? riqster Oct 2014 #266

. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #269

So, the guidance changed after her flight. riqster Oct 2014 #272

I'm not going to look for the link Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #274

And a good day to you and yours. riqster Oct 2014 #275

Given the facts? OF COURSE!! If I want to look at facts, common sense starts with common knowledge uponit7771 Oct 2014 #173

Apparently, she was symptomatic. Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #268

It's here on DU and it's fucking disgusting. Thanks for posting this rebuttal, not that KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #7

There's a lot of disrespect for healthcare workers on DU. Aristus Oct 2014 #11

Going after nurses proved Schwarze-Nazi's final undoing out here in KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #12

And that's the lowest thing of all: bashing nurses. Aristus Oct 2014 #16

No one.. sendero Oct 2014 #27

Yes, people ARE bashing nurses and this ones judgment when FACTUALLY there were NO SIGNS of anything uponit7771 Oct 2014 #49

People don't use their own common sense. We bow down to authority because we are convinced Pisces Oct 2014 #15

+1 /nt Sweet Freedom Oct 2014 #31

Quarantined herself while THERE WAS NO SIGNS OF ANYTHING WRONG?! You're kidding... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #50

That is a normal temp for someone who has not come in contact with Ebola!! If you were directly Pisces Oct 2014 #162

She was not directly exposed, there's no proof of that... where are people getting this from!? uponit7771 Oct 2014 #202

THis is a life lesson. You have to trust your own common sense, she was obviously uncertain and Pisces Oct 2014 #245

That's not proof hat she was directly exposed to duncan uponit7771 Oct 2014 #246

Seriously? TM99 Oct 2014 #247

Here's the link to the story. She was directly exposed to Duncan. Pisces Oct 2014 #248

I'd say inserting a catheter, Ms. Toad Oct 2014 #258

It's not often that I agree with you. OnyxCollie Oct 2014 #23

Duly noted. riqster Oct 2014 #96

I absolutely do not blame Amber Vinson for geting on that plane. She got totodeinhere Oct 2014 #26

Really. marions ghost Oct 2014 #88

Did you know that in 2009 the head of the Texas Presbyterian hospital chain made KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #151

Oh criminy ... Trajan Oct 2014 #28

A stylistic choice. I understand that it is offensive to some. riqster Oct 2014 #112

What I don't understand is why she went to Ohio in the first place. pnwmom Oct 2014 #29

No they are not quarantined. They are doing self monitoring and that's it. totodeinhere Oct 2014 #33

She asked the CDC BEFORE leaving Dallas, if she could fly? SoapBox Oct 2014 #36

If you have a source showing she talked with them prior to the trip, I'd like to see it as what I've uppityperson Oct 2014 #81

You are correct. She asked the CDC to for permission to fly back to Dallas and totodeinhere Oct 2014 #131

And they okayed the flight because she was not in a high risk group. merrily Oct 2014 #161

also, 21 day self observation != stay away from society. Im sure that's not what these people signed uponit7771 Oct 2014 #35

Doesn't matter. That may be what is NECESSARY. calimary Oct 2014 #174

No,... we disagree on the facts there... No one signed up for Agent Orange... but they did sign up uponit7771 Oct 2014 #180

AHA! You hit on something REALLY important here! URGENTLY important. calimary Oct 2014 #203

+1, I place the onus on the hospital...not even the CDC...that place should NOT be paying someone... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #206

We got whiffs of that during the coverage today. When it was pointed out that calimary Oct 2014 #250

Ebola patient had CDC OK to fly from Cleveland to Dallas damnedifIknow Oct 2014 #59

+1, there was nothing wrong with Amber ... 99.5 is normal temp for healthy WOMAN.. for a guy maybe uponit7771 Oct 2014 #62

Ehh... her actions were still pretty fucking stupid. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #67

She had been exposed but no signs of anything being wrong with her including the NORMAL temp of 99.5 uponit7771 Oct 2014 #91

Apparently, 99.5 isn't normal for her or she wouldn't have called the CDC. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #100

Not the case, she could've been taken the extra step... I would've and if cleared would've uponit7771 Oct 2014 #108

Not me. If I know I've been exposed to Ebola I stay away from people. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #122

There was NO WAY she could've known that she was exposed to the diseases vs exposed uponit7771 Oct 2014 #141

What!? She is a nurse that has been exposed to the bodily fluids of a known ebloa patient. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #149

I'm disputing useing the world "exposure" here because it's obvlious, it could mean anything and... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #184

Exposure has a specific medical definition. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #194

I don't see ANYWHERE saying she exposed as highlighted... no where. uponit7771 Oct 2014 #204

+1000 snappyturtle Oct 2014 #145

Only if she puked, shat, or bled on them. riqster Oct 2014 #264

All the A**holes who are Insulting the Flying Ebola Nurse: Shut Your F***ing Faces The CCC Oct 2014 #68

This is false, she was not sick and 99.5 is a normal temp for a healthy woman. Talking heads calling uponit7771 Oct 2014 #82

I particularly love nurse and health care workers etherealtruth Oct 2014 #80

There were no signs anything was wrong with her, 99.5 is NOT a "temperature" for a healthy woman... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #85

I agree that no one was told anything etherealtruth Oct 2014 #144

The only ones to blame are the world leaders with the knowledge and resources valerief Oct 2014 #86

They couldn't be bothered with it so long as it was perceived to be a (mostly) KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #134

I am sure she was told, janlyn Oct 2014 #90

Yes, that's why I posted an OP yesterday... basically people said we'd have to be swimming in uponit7771 Oct 2014 #92

+1 LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #102

Punishment fetishists think blaming is solving. Iggo Oct 2014 #94

And that blaming the wrong people is OK, too. riqster Oct 2014 #106

"She put her life on the line".. so I get that means she can put everyone else's life too! TerrapinFlyer Oct 2014 #97

+1 I agree. KitSileya Oct 2014 #128

Eloquent! Feral Child Oct 2014 #103

S'truth. The systematic starvation of our health infrastructure is criminal. riqster Oct 2014 #109

Going to bite them in the ass, too. Feral Child Oct 2014 #129

Sorry, but no. liberalhistorian Oct 2014 #105

Why? There was NOTHING wrong with her, No signs of sickness, told the disease isn't contagious uponit7771 Oct 2014 #111

It is well-known that the incubation liberalhistorian Oct 2014 #115

She did NOT have a fever, that's what talking heads are saying and not a medical fact.. There were uponit7771 Oct 2014 #120

Actually yes there was something wrong. TM99 Oct 2014 #150

Thank you, you pretty much liberalhistorian Oct 2014 #171

Please show proof that she KNEW she was infected? Exposed could mean ANYTHING it's too oblivious... uponit7771 Oct 2014 #176

Thank you for making the point. TM99 Oct 2014 #188

How was she "exposed" to ebola using the same examples?! SHE WASN'T!!! Exposed is WAY to oblivious.. uponit7771 Oct 2014 #192

Are you assuming she *doesn't* know how diseases her patients have are transmitted? KitSileya Oct 2014 #208

Not EVERY SINGLE ONE of them!! We're not talking about diseases" we're talking about VHFs uponit7771 Oct 2014 #213

No not each and every one of them. But the ones her patients had? KitSileya Oct 2014 #217

You are being utterly ridiculous. TM99 Oct 2014 #215

THANK YOU Skittles Oct 2014 #259

+1 snagglepuss Oct 2014 #239

+1 LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #125

She is an American hero, when you think about it. Helen Borg Oct 2014 #132

Yes marions ghost Oct 2014 #154

How would you know? Maybe she's a piss-poor nurse, for all ANYONE knows. randome Oct 2014 #156

Whether or not she is a piss poor nurse or works every day, she did not refuse to care for merrily Oct 2014 #159

Hard to get Ebola by being an absenteeist. Just saying... Helen Borg Oct 2014 #212

I'm sorry but I would posit that people stop victim blaming period. Ignorance arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #136

You can hear the excitement in their posts about who to blame. randome Oct 2014 #160

That's my take too. Demonize the worlds pathetic response to West Africa's plight if they must. nt arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #175

DU Rec! In_The_Wind Oct 2014 #137

Yes treestar Oct 2014 #155

Erin O'Brien fadedrose Oct 2014 #164

I like to watch Jane Valez-Mitchel during that hour. MoonRiver Oct 2014 #179

I had to put her name in Search fadedrose Oct 2014 #189

You're welcome. MoonRiver Oct 2014 #196

I just found out that her show is being cancelled due to budget cuts! Arrrrrrgh! MoonRiver Oct 2014 #235

So are the words "asshole" and "fucking" acceptable or not? Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #210

The OP is a repost of a blog, which is hosted elsewhere. riqster Oct 2014 #226

Ambers gut instincts told her not to fly. FarPoint Oct 2014 #211

Perhaps. Mind-reading is tricky, though. riqster Oct 2014 #227

I thought about that too... FarPoint Oct 2014 #231

I can't disagree with this. woo me with science Oct 2014 #220

Thanks. Now and again, the hulk comes out, as it were. riqster Oct 2014 #224

"The flying ebola nurse." I see a new ABC series in the works. randome Oct 2014 #230

I agree, except for one thing customerserviceguy Oct 2014 #251

Good post, this brave young woman put her life on the line and was let down by her employers. greatlaurel Oct 2014 #252

Well, _that_ was persuasive. Heidi Oct 2014 #262

AV sought permission to fly because she was reluctant to do so on her own say-so, because SHE KNEW WinkyDink Oct 2014 #265

She Deserves Some Blame erpowers Oct 2014 #267

I won't give her a pass. MoonRiver Oct 2014 #273