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In reply to the discussion: How would you answer this test question? From a 1st grade Common Core test. [View all]madfloridian
(88,117 posts)397. Wrong. I taught "new" math "old" math for decades.
Most teachers did. We also taught the kids that real life would demand they know the short way to do it.
It is matter of a test item that is faulty. There is no correct answer given.
There is an addition problem that suits the picture, but the item called for subtraction. Therefore there is no right answer. Someone said it was a trick question....there should be no trick questions for first graders.
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How would you answer this test question? From a 1st grade Common Core test. [View all]
madfloridian
Sep 2014
OP
Critical thinking is ambiguous, hence the test would have to be ambiguous, AND
orpupilofnature57
Sep 2014
#426
Actually, there are plenty of ways to study and teach critical thinking, creating thinking...
Sancho
Sep 2014
#435
Perspicacity is one descriptor, but not a theory based on observation, research, or measurement.
Sancho
Sep 2014
#437
Did you notice the young perky blonde teacher using the word "algorithm" to her
truedelphi
Sep 2014
#432
My guess would be B. Subtraction sentence? This isn't grammar, it's math. Common Core doesn't
Louisiana1976
Sep 2014
#2
Clearly, if one holds a open flame below possible answer D), answer E) "None of the above" appears.
xocet
Sep 2014
#277
Here are 2 pages of that test. States it is from Pearson. It is a practice page, test prep
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#373
Pearson is writing the whole damn test for many states. There should be no errors.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#386
Yes, they have their justifications -- but the bottom line is that there can be many poorly designed
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#405
Didn't watch the video, did you? Not a teacher or an educator either I presume.
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#406
I did that wayyyyy back in school, tried to teach my classmates and got in trouble with the teacher
uppityperson
Sep 2014
#20
MEANWHILE, EVERY OTHER SUBJECT ESCHEWS ACTUAL FACTS!! Irony, thy name is Common Core.
WinkyDink
Sep 2014
#33
This particular question is not testing whether students understand the concept
Ms. Toad
Sep 2014
#401
Your final sentence is better because the "correct" way is simply wrong. It's not a subtraction
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#271
Tell that to the districts and feds that keep calling what is old as new.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#399
That is old old math dressed up as new math. We taught that for years. Number families.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#245
Then why are you acting like "4 + 3 = 7" doesn't express a subtractive identity?
Recursion
Sep 2014
#223
About a third of the kids I've tutored (generally 8 - 10 years old) were taught to do that
Recursion
Sep 2014
#248
Hey, no problem. Education is important, and reading this thread has been very interesting. n/t
xocet
Sep 2014
#290
But how were the other groups of numbers not also part of the subtraction method?? -
truedelphi
Sep 2014
#434
Subtraction can be seen as a form of addition if you consider negative numbers
karynnj
Sep 2014
#385
First grade? (Must be the topics covered in April or May, well after everyone saw Spot run) . . .
Journeyman
Sep 2014
#6
people jumped down my throat for pointing out that Common Core math is funky
Man from Pickens
Sep 2014
#84
It's testing problem. By some company that is making millions of education.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#22
I expressly said I was not against standards, just the way they are tested.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#49
Where was the typo? What I saw was an awful, disastrous and confusing attempt to
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#104
I have read the subthread and see that two people, MF and Rocktivity got it right.
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#113
Are you trying to tell us that NCLB or Common Core is optional? Tell that to the teachers
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#221
The districts my kids have attended in do pre-tests in kindergarden, first, and second grades
azurnoir
Sep 2014
#250
I agree that this is all about profits for the testing corporations. Same with mass drug testing.n/t
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#210
Yes, exactly. Drug testing has made some people obscenely wealthy. As has NCLB/Common Core or
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#231
Yes, absolutely. Privatization of everything, education, SS, all of these programs
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#341
Not 'understand', memorize the 'rules'. That is not understanding math. It is worse than
sabrina 1
Sep 2014
#73
Yes, yes indeed they would in fact be that proscriptive about illustration.
DeadLetterOffice
Sep 2014
#185
And yet, many DUers haven't heard it, and neither have those reference books
muriel_volestrangler
Sep 2014
#330
ONCE AGAIN, Common Core is ONLY about selling common text books to a mass market.
Atman
Sep 2014
#25
Do you not see how confusing this might be to a child who at some point in the future
chervilant
Sep 2014
#160
What I want to see in 15 years, though, is will these kids know if they get the right change back
DebJ
Sep 2014
#239
Whats absurd is the pretense that common core standards made this test question mandatory
Egnever
Sep 2014
#188
Subtraction is addition. In fact, addition of unknowns is a better way to do subtraction problems.
Recursion
Sep 2014
#205
OK, I'll say it: this looks to me like potentially quite a good approach to teaching.
Donald Ian Rankin
Sep 2014
#305
In some grades they will be taught straight math language and in other grades they start the brain..
Tikki
Sep 2014
#101
Except the same test, page 2, uses the standard definition for a subtraction sentence.
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#300
I was responding to the post asking how addition and subtraction could be conflated.
Warren Stupidity
Sep 2014
#327
Watching the video I'm leaning towards a typo now too, though I've tutored kids who are taught
Recursion
Sep 2014
#238
Now that response is the best I ever heard. No correct answer, just make do. LOL
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#96
IDGI. Are we supposed to look at the bar and see 4 filled-in squares and 3 not, to get (C.)?
WinkyDink
Sep 2014
#31
and Gates Foundation had already screwed up with the untested New Schools Initiative
zazen
Sep 2014
#110
1st Grade? Do 1st graders even understand the words in the question and what the sentence actually
madinmaryland
Sep 2014
#38
Yes they do and if they don't, at least where I live, there is a tiered Kindergarten and an...
Tikki
Sep 2014
#184
If Noah built an ark 300 cubits by 50 cubits, how many dinosaurs would fit on the Promanade Deck?
Atman
Sep 2014
#39
Wow, this one really drew the supporters of "reform". Support anything madfloridian opposes.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#48
FYI...my kid is taught two strategies (at least) per math concept. It's a way
msanthrope
Sep 2014
#282
That's what I think many critics of Common Core get stuck on--at least, from the critiques
msanthrope
Sep 2014
#340
It asks which is "a related subtraction sentence", not "related to a relevant subtraction sentence"
muriel_volestrangler
Sep 2014
#153
I taught new math, old math, then new math again. Please do not talk down to me.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#99
It teaches them to realize that they must understand the specific jargon, and when new standards and
DebJ
Sep 2014
#242
I wasn't stumped by the equation. I was stumped by the phrasing of the question.
magical thyme
Sep 2014
#72
I think there's a grammatical problem. The phrase is suffering from a modifier traffic jam
RufusTFirefly
Sep 2014
#147
Whoever gave 5th rec...thanks. But now I am in the wrong for saying the item is faulty.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#60
Then they are wrong. This test insures that kids do NOT know the difference which must be the goal.
Kablooie
Sep 2014
#70
Amazing. I am wrong. 2nd graders are wrong. Yet there is still no minus sign.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#93
Just shows that your kids are smarter than the people who devised the common core test.
Kablooie
Sep 2014
#119
And of course they have done extensive work with small numbers in first grade????
DebJ
Sep 2014
#257
Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget this is a question for first graders...n/t
BuelahWitch
Sep 2014
#392
Yes, there should be standards, but the common core is proving to be an overreach. Plain and simple.
RBInMaine
Sep 2014
#77
Exactly! BECAUSE IT IS ON THE TEST. Not because it is helpful to them, or necessary to learn,
DebJ
Sep 2014
#260
As a first grader, I couldn't because of the too-advanced 'tricks and traps' language. BAD question.
ancianita
Sep 2014
#111
Crazy, isn't it? Almost like people have a vested interest in encouraging a state of constant panic
Recursion
Sep 2014
#284
You are right that schools are doing a better job over the last few decades. But...
Sancho
Sep 2014
#329
"Beth's problem is that she thinks playing cowbell is an acceptable role in a rock band..."
muriel_volestrangler
Sep 2014
#318
Oh and high school kids are taking college courses before they even finish high school
sammytko
Sep 2014
#395
That was a beautiful arrangement: to teach the same group of kids for four years! Perfect!
DebJ
Sep 2014
#368
One of the fascinating things about this example is that it ignores what we know about children!
Sancho
Sep 2014
#129
Amen! And assuming knowledgable experienced teachers will be in charter schools....Ha!
DebJ
Sep 2014
#265
Ok I finally showed it to my kindergartener, though she can't read all that well
gollygee
Sep 2014
#168
You've caught the problem perfectly...education has changed, and for the better.
msanthrope
Sep 2014
#187
I haven't seen nearly as many complaints about education as I saw 20 years ago.
gollygee
Sep 2014
#431
Yes! Standardized tests can be hell for people capable of divergent thinking. n/t
RufusTFirefly
Sep 2014
#157
Tony the Tiger was a question's subject on my sophomore child's common core test!
Dont call me Shirley
Sep 2014
#155
Obviously what the kids were taught makes a huge difference in whether this is a good question
Recursion
Sep 2014
#222
She seems to be right, and the question made a mistake by putting subtraction instead of addition
Chathamization
Sep 2014
#229
I didn't associate the blocks with the question at all. My bad, I guess... n/t
TygrBright
Sep 2014
#235
Nope. Got no connection at all between the blobby line of squares and the math question. n/t
TygrBright
Sep 2014
#273
First, they're looking for addition; second, an ivory tower wonk wrote the question
Warpy
Sep 2014
#164
It works out better for some people if the parents aren't able to help their children.
DebJ
Sep 2014
#287
Again, what's old is new. We had manipulatives for quadratic equations in 1982 as 2nd-graders
Recursion
Sep 2014
#208
So there was an error on a single test somewhere in America. Hell, there are probable other errors
Chathamization
Sep 2014
#196
They asked for a subtraction problem. There is not one. It's misleading and just plain wrong.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#278
The question tests understanding that a problem can be seen more than one way.
LeftyMom
Sep 2014
#286
I taught these methods for over 30 years. These are first graders, concrete thinkers.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#291
interesting- it reminded me of using an abacus, which I needed to in order to grasp math.
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#293
Tell me about it- I lost $ 9.05 in poker last night. My cash out of $1.95 reveals I had originally
bettyellen
Sep 2014
#295
Now picture the unfortunate first grader exposed to a test full of this idiocy. n/t
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#274
And think about all the ESL kids who thought they at least could do math problems
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#372
You also have to understand that "cookies and milk" might be culturally loaded...
Sancho
Sep 2014
#332
Kids deserve the highest quality work in tests like this, since they're being used
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#346
Not all standardized tests are graded by computers anymore, especially common core tests.
pnwmom
Sep 2014
#351
New ways of teaching, learning, explaining, and illustrating ideas are as old as Socrates....
Sancho
Sep 2014
#364
"Just because you don't get it doesn't mean people are getting "tricked". LOL"
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#423
wow. I can't believe how blindly people will follow Obama's policies.
liberal_at_heart
Sep 2014
#421
The OP makes it clear I was a teacher. But I still got talked down to all through the thread.
madfloridian
Sep 2014
#424
education clearly is no where on the radar screen of democrats which is a deal breaker for me.
liberal_at_heart
Sep 2014
#425
socialists do. And don't give me that if I vote for a socialist I guarantee a republican wins crap.
liberal_at_heart
Sep 2014
#428
FDR was a socialist, and Bush wasn't a fascist, Sure . And thank socialists
orpupilofnature57
Sep 2014
#429
I wonder why half the people replying simply cannot fathom a test question being incorrect?
Rex
Sep 2014
#441
The standards are part of the problem. The whole system is the problem. Did you see
liberal_at_heart
Oct 2014
#446