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Codeine

(25,586 posts)

37. That sums up my view as well.

Sun Aug 24, 2014, 06:00 PM

Aug 2014

I'm generally against the notion of American Exceptionalism, but I honestly believe that when it comes to free speech we got that shit right.

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Neil Gaiman writes "Why defend freedom of icky speech?" [View all] Kurska Aug 2014 OP

'I'm curious how DU would react to this.' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #1

I've seen people absolutely advocate banning fictional depictions of rape. Kurska Aug 2014 #3

Could you post a link thucythucy Aug 2014 #8

I don't write it down post numbers or usernames. Kurska Aug 2014 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author thucythucy Aug 2014 #11

Here's one: Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #13

I appreciate the link thucythucy Aug 2014 #24

A fact is, speech influences thoughts & behaviors. alp227 Aug 2014 #10

First off, I'd really like proof that not banning it increases rapes. Kurska Aug 2014 #12

Way to completely miss Gaiman's point SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #17

Japan has some incredibly graphic porn and has a much lower rate of sexual assault than the U.S. mythology Aug 2014 #39

What exactly do you mean by "fictional depictions of rape"? nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #61

Lots of countries have obscenity laws that restrict written OR visual sexual abuse. alp227 Aug 2014 #68

Thanks for clarifying. I guess "glorify" is really the key word there. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #69

What they were probably referring to is "rape porn" that's indistinguishable from actual rape. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #59

I don't think fiction should be a crime in the great majority of circumstances. As for depictions of Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #2

So, yes? daleanime Aug 2014 #5

Interesting how so many posters seem to be dancing around that proposition without saying so. n/t X_Digger Aug 2014 #28

If fiction can be a crime, Ayn Rand would have died in prison. Warpy Aug 2014 #4

I'll give credit to you for actually going there. Kurska Aug 2014 #6

Had she stayed in Russia and written what she did Igel Aug 2014 #7

She should have been jailed for crimes against the English language. hifiguy Aug 2014 #21

Hate speech can be defined, banned and fairly prosecuted...every other Western nation knows how. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #14

So you support jailing people for expressing their opinions? Kurska Aug 2014 #15

You exaggerate, free speech is already limited in many ways, it is matter of drawing the line. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #34

Again, you support imprisoning people for up to 5 years for expressing an opinion. Kurska Aug 2014 #40

Why are you conflating incitement of hatred and expression of opinion? nt alp227 Aug 2014 #43

You can't have a hateful opinion or even vile opinion? Don't hide behind the terminology. Kurska Aug 2014 #44

If it causes harm to an entire class of people, the opinion is subject to opposition. nt alp227 Aug 2014 #45

Not "opposition" legal sanction enforced by the government, including prison. Kurska Aug 2014 #46

Quite a bit of mealy-mouthed doublespeak, isn't it? X_Digger Aug 2014 #47

But, freedom of speech is just so doubleplusungood isn't it? Kurska Aug 2014 #48

Yep. This is the issue hifiguy Aug 2014 #81

No mask. Only logic and dealing with reality. Flights of fancy I have no problem with, imagination Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #83

there are a great many people who sincerely believe that advocating for gay rights dsc Aug 2014 #52

Nonono, only things that WE DON'T LIKE will get banned, don'cha'know?!? ;) n/t X_Digger Aug 2014 #56

Define "cause." hifiguy Aug 2014 #80

That is why we have lawyers and judges and why laymen make poor consultants. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #84

Just to clarify hifiguy Aug 2014 #85

The law evolves over time, as hate speech law has evolved. Continuing education is valuable. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #87

IMO the "hate speech" laws are hifiguy Aug 2014 #88

Absolutely. Very strictly construed and narrow by the courts, which has indeed been the experience. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #90

He needs to separate the notion of allowing vile speech but not hate speech that is intended to cite Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #86

German history makes that country hifiguy Aug 2014 #51

I don't believe so. Kurska Aug 2014 #55

Just imagine the laws that would spring up in Southern states banning the mocking of Christianity Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #16

People always imagine it as some "utopia" where only their opinion is protected Kurska Aug 2014 #19

So free speech for everyone SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #20

do they? DonCoquixote Aug 2014 #26

And this is one of those rare instances Codeine Aug 2014 #36

They are wrong to do so LittleBlue Aug 2014 #73

Awww, that pesky 1st Amendment Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #74

I used to manage an sf/comicshop in the 1990s hifiguy Aug 2014 #18

My strong belief in the freedom of speech is perhaps the only absolutist view I have. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #22

That sums up my view as well. Codeine Aug 2014 #37

Hate speech should not be covered by the First Amendment Matrosov Aug 2014 #23

Just about anything controversial could be described as hate speech in relation to someone. Kurska Aug 2014 #25

Emotion vs logic Matrosov Aug 2014 #58

I hate to be pedantic but the Justice Holmes quote tht hifiguy Aug 2014 #27

Hate speech absolutely is protected by the First Amendment. Codeine Aug 2014 #42

Indeed Matrosov Aug 2014 #57

Who defines what speech is hateful? Be careful what you wish for. Throd Aug 2014 #60

+1000 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #62

It always is and no one hifiguy Aug 2014 #89

All humans have uncomfortable thoughts. Artists explore & unpack them. Thinking isn't criminal. politicat Aug 2014 #29

........ daleanime Aug 2014 #32

/nods vigorously. politicat Aug 2014 #33

Thank goodness that I watched it alone.... daleanime Aug 2014 #66

And Barefoot Gen Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #54

Damn, that's on my list to get to.... daleanime Aug 2014 #63

It is, but you'll definitely feel the pain. Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #78

As a fellow fiction writer, I want to say I really appreciate this post. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #64

Thanks. Art must have room to breathe. politicat Aug 2014 #70

Freedom of speech also extends to criticism of such speech BainsBane Aug 2014 #30

Of course it does. hifiguy Aug 2014 #31

In your opinion BainsBane Aug 2014 #35

Of course.... daleanime Aug 2014 #38

It isn't a canard when there are examples of it in this very thread. Kurska Aug 2014 #41

Links? BainsBane Aug 2014 #49

Post 13 contains a link. Kurska Aug 2014 #50

This is the other side of it. Criticism =/= censorship. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #65

And criticism of that criticism, and so on. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #75

That "comic" sounds disgusting. NaturalHigh Aug 2014 #53

As a writer myself, I am absolutely opposed to censorship of fictional works. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #67

Yelling Fire at home with family and friends is your prerogative, is your right - Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #71

The "fire in a theater" example is overused, and widely misunderstood. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #77

whatever. good bye. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #79

The EU desperately needs a freedom of speech guarantee LittleBlue Aug 2014 #72

The whole point of the 1st Amendment is that it protects unpopular or even icky speech. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #76

Which is just what Madison and hifiguy Aug 2014 #82

+2 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #92

Cass Sunstein doesn't like icky speech that casts government in a bad light. Octafish Aug 2014 #91