General Discussion

pipoman

(16,038 posts)

315. Not disapproval. ..disbelief

Tue Apr 22, 2014, 07:20 AM

Apr 2014

That anyone could seriously believe that the Senate system could change in the next century or three without something cataclysmic like civil war. I thought until I read this you were playing devils advocate, not that you actually believe any significant portion of the population would agree. So again..lol...ffs

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How can we have democracy when half the population holds 20% of the Senate? [View all] CreekDog Apr 2014 OP

We can't-- we have a republic... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #1

then why have any democracy? CreekDog Apr 2014 #5

Remember we had that? King George ring a bell oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #8

That was Plato's answer. TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #11

how did the constitution protect slaves? CreekDog Apr 2014 #36

It didn't... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #48

so if you're explaining how the Senate was created to put slaves down CreekDog Apr 2014 #50

Huh? The Senate was to stop big states like Pennsylvania... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #58

Yet what we have now is small red states like Wyoming thucythucy Apr 2014 #116

If CA knows better than WY ManiacJoe Apr 2014 #154

Let me see if I have this right. thucythucy Apr 2014 #169

Our country is called the United States for a reason. Jenoch Apr 2014 #176

Of course it was "an intentional thing." thucythucy Apr 2014 #182

So you would prefer that the U.S. Senate be abolished? Jenoch Apr 2014 #184

It won't happen in our lifetimes, certainly. thucythucy Apr 2014 #185

In Minnesota we have a law in which an employer Jenoch Apr 2014 #191

That is a very enlightened law you have in Minnesota. thucythucy Apr 2014 #247

38 million Californians need to have more of a say than 600,000 Wyomingans CreekDog Apr 2014 #220

The 38 million CA residents do have more say. ManiacJoe Apr 2014 #230

The current structure of the senate didn't stop thucythucy Apr 2014 #256

I am willing to take the good with the bad. ManiacJoe Apr 2014 #262

Well California would support protecting gays from discrimination, Wyoming does not CreekDog Apr 2014 #300

I appologize for your misunderstanding. ManiacJoe Apr 2014 #305

Interesting take Savannahmann Apr 2014 #168

Republicans run the federal House because Democrats stayed home in 2010, thucythucy Apr 2014 #172

Actually, Wyoming is also over-represented in the house. DanTex Apr 2014 #207

More powerful than 53 California representatives! Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #222

Per capita, yes. States are not people, you know. DanTex Apr 2014 #224

Each state has equal rights under the laws of the US, Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #228

Of course, the good ol' "that's just the way it is" defense. DanTex Apr 2014 #233

Actually, more like the "that's the way it should be" defense. badtoworse Apr 2014 #235

Except for the lack of any rationale for the "should" part... DanTex Apr 2014 #239

There's planty of rationale. It just doesn't suit your agenda. badtoworse Apr 2014 #303

Nonsense Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #236

Big states also have more people. One person, one vote. That's equality. DanTex Apr 2014 #242

But it's NOT one person, one vote in Presidential elections Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #249

Yes, the electoral college is also dumb. DanTex Apr 2014 #253

The majority can always run over the one elitist they put in charge Jack Rabbit Apr 2014 #16

We are a republic based on democratic principals pipoman Apr 2014 #21

so you're saying that our system is based on 18th century models, and shouldn't be changed CreekDog Apr 2014 #200

You will find BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #212

what defense would YOU put in place DonCoquixote Apr 2014 #287

What would the benefit be of one person in charge pnwmom Apr 2014 #310

Depends on the person, but... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #371

"Depends on the person." And that makes it entirely not worth the risk. pnwmom Apr 2014 #372

And what reward is there without risk? TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #373

There's always some risk. But I prefer reasonable risk to insane risk.n/t pnwmom Apr 2014 #374

Except the House no longer represents the population. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #28

For now. TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #33

Gerrymandering goes both ways in many instances. Jenoch Apr 2014 #118

There is a twenty year cycle for redistricting Gothmog Apr 2014 #203

Texas and Tom DeLay threw that cycle overboard. MohRokTah Apr 2014 #215

apportionment is the bigger deal joshcryer Apr 2014 #282

How does giving some people more influence than others reduce tyranny of the majority? DanTex Apr 2014 #52

So, find a better way... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #64

A better way? OK, how about changing the senate so that each voter has equal influence. DanTex Apr 2014 #67

Interesting thought... TreasonousBastard Apr 2014 #70

No, it won't happen. DanTex Apr 2014 #72

Not to mention, the people of the District of Columbia, thucythucy Apr 2014 #179

Take a hint... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #199

not true. when i lived in Arizona and Utah, I had no problem with CA having more power CreekDog Apr 2014 #221

You don't seem concerned... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #240

I don't think the evidence supports your claim. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #327

The two are unrelated... Hip_Flask Apr 2014 #330

Which is why rural electrification and the TVA Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #332

No, you take a hint CreekDog Apr 2014 #365

Copa Cabana!!! NYC_SKP Apr 2014 #366

I'm tired of people who seem to think that "republic" and "democracy" are mutually exclusive terms. Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #121

The reason for the "imbalance of power" in the Senate Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #299

We have a democratic republic. This nation has always operated as a hybrid. blm Apr 2014 #153

A republic is a type of a democracy. phleshdef Apr 2014 #193

I'm somewhat off topic, but MI voters' banning affirmative action at UM is a case of the majority AlinPA Apr 2014 #370

It was never intended to be a democracy oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #2

so you're saying democracies don't work, therefore, it's good to do things CreekDog Apr 2014 #7

good reading oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #9

Philosophy guy here BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #15

I'm just throwing it out there for the OP to read , she could also read the Republic by Plato oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #17

The history of republics BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #18

My argument is for present time oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #19

Ideologies look towards the future BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #20

The history of every form of government stinks AngryAmish Apr 2014 #27

Will you give your definition of a 'republic', please? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #23

Don't run away from what you posted CreekDog Apr 2014 #223

My statement was clear oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #243

you ran away from it, you were quoting it and then when questioned you said... CreekDog Apr 2014 #255

I didn't run away , It's not my definition of what a republic or oneofthe99 Apr 2014 #261

Supposedly the Republic is the best system in the World yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #26

That doesn't make it right. DanTex Apr 2014 #45

Ten states have 20 senators - 20% . . . Journeyman Apr 2014 #3

thanks, too many numbers running in my head! CreekDog Apr 2014 #6

I think the 2 senators per state is outdated myself. cui bono Apr 2014 #4

It was actually by design. The House is proportional represention. joshcryer Apr 2014 #10

Keep in mind that even though Wyoming may have the same number of Senators as... Shandris Apr 2014 #12

But the boundaries of states have been set up pretty arbitrarily muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #24

NYC and upstate NY MIGHT be one of the few areas where that is true... Shandris Apr 2014 #375

But it goes more with accidents of history than type of place muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #376

Are you saying that the understandings/beliefs/concerns of the people in, say, Staten Island DanTex Apr 2014 #69

I think the last thing we want is to pay attention to the beliefs or concerns of Staten Island theboss Apr 2014 #146

well the Senate is such that it would be akin to Staten Island getting 2 senators... CreekDog Apr 2014 #226

that's ridiculous. i lived in 3 different states and i am the same person CreekDog Apr 2014 #225

The Senate represents the states not the poeple. ManiacJoe Apr 2014 #13

how does that work out by party? hfojvt Apr 2014 #14

the question wasn't asking to rerun the 2012 election under the scenario you cited CreekDog Apr 2014 #227

It's always surprising how many pipoman Apr 2014 #22

That's not it. DanTex Apr 2014 #39

Of course by "more equitable" pipoman Apr 2014 #165

Of course, I don't expect the privileged class to simply give up their privileges. DanTex Apr 2014 #195

The Senate represents states. The House is based on population. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #25

But minority rights are not defined by the votes in the Senate muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #29

What are you responding to? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #30

I was responding to your invocation of minority rights muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #296

Minority Rights are part of what seperates a republic apart from a pure democracy. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #306

That doesn't make it right. DanTex Apr 2014 #65

Not fundamental at all - in fact, it doesn't exist any more NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #73

Yes, it was fundamental, at the time. DanTex Apr 2014 #74

No, 3/5th was never of of central importance. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #75

3/5ths was of central importance to black men in this country CreekDog Apr 2014 #78

Isn't that nice. Shame the topic was the Constitution and Constitutional Convention. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #80

you're shaming me for brining up slavery in a discussion of minority rights CreekDog Apr 2014 #82

I and DanTex were discussing the Senate. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #98

well DanTex isn't defending you CreekDog Apr 2014 #101

Defend me from what? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #105

I think race is probably a touchy subject for people arguing in favor of entrenched inequality. DanTex Apr 2014 #99

If you wish to make such an accusation - NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #133

OK. People arguing in favor of entrenched inequality (i.e. you) DanTex Apr 2014 #136

That word salad is your accusation? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #139

Well, you are certainly making a very conservative argument. DanTex Apr 2014 #140

Whatever NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #141

It's silly to argue that the house "offsets" the Senate. DanTex Apr 2014 #142

You just keep missing the point. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #143

you won't accept a middle position CreekDog Apr 2014 #232

How was it important to the slaves in the south?? eom yawnmaster Apr 2014 #353

It empowered slave states over non-slave states, helping keep slaves from freedom CreekDog Apr 2014 #355

those against slavery wanted it to be 0/5! Counting a slave as anything over 0 gave... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #356

the slaves were human beings. they wanted to be counted fully and have full rights. CreekDog Apr 2014 #357

You're not paying attention FBaggins Apr 2014 #358

QUOTE me where i said that what the slaves wanted was considered in the debate CreekDog Apr 2014 #359

Easy FBaggins Apr 2014 #364

Do you really think they, the slaves, had much, if any, knowledge about how the constitution... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #360

do you think they needed any special knowledge to want to be thought of as human beings? CreekDog Apr 2014 #361

what are you arguing?? what does this have to do with the 3/5 count??? yawnmaster Apr 2014 #362

you don't think every detail of a slave's position in this country would be of interest to them? CreekDog Apr 2014 #363

That is right, I don't think many even knew there was a debate going on. Do you realize that... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #369

Again, a bicameral legislature doesn't have to be grossly unequal. DanTex Apr 2014 #81

Then, why have two houses? joeglow3 Apr 2014 #86

For checks and balances. DanTex Apr 2014 #88

Then why not have 10 houses? joeglow3 Apr 2014 #128

I don't know why. Maybe two isn't the magic number. DanTex Apr 2014 #130

it is a REGIONAL checks and balance, ftmp. That is why it is not based on population. eom yawnmaster Apr 2014 #354

There is no reason for two houses if they are both by apportionment. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #87

Sure there is, for checks and balances. DanTex Apr 2014 #95

Why spend any money in a state like Wyoming in a pure apportioned legislative body? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #102

For the same reason that we spend money in Staten Island. DanTex Apr 2014 #108

You need to sit back and think about this some more. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #113

States are not people, any more than corporations are. DanTex Apr 2014 #120

Sigh NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #122

Really? That's your answer? DanTex Apr 2014 #123

the argument may be pointless CreekDog Apr 2014 #216

No it doesn't and James Madison agreed with you Progressive dog Apr 2014 #183

you do realize that those supporting slavery wanted the 3/5 to be 5/5 a full representation... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #352

Our system is designed to protect minority rights hack89 Apr 2014 #31

so was slavery CreekDog Apr 2014 #34

Insulting people like that pintobean Apr 2014 #37

that's not your decision to make CreekDog Apr 2014 #42

No shit, nor yours. pintobean Apr 2014 #46

now you're swearing? CreekDog Apr 2014 #49

You're so cute pintobean Apr 2014 #56

sounds like your post against insults wasn't sincere CreekDog Apr 2014 #62

The use of profanity not directed at a person isn't an insult. nt NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #76

are you answering for him? CreekDog Apr 2014 #77

Just correcting you. NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #79

Your corrections in this thread included "shaming" me for mentioning slavery in this thread CreekDog Apr 2014 #91

What? NutmegYankee Apr 2014 #110

Obviously, more so than you pintobean Apr 2014 #90

LOL....ffs pipoman Apr 2014 #166

you disapprove? good. CreekDog Apr 2014 #234

Not disapproval. ..disbelief pipoman Apr 2014 #315

Nothing man made is perfect hack89 Apr 2014 #38

This has nothing to do with protecting minority rights. DanTex Apr 2014 #41

Sure is it hack89 Apr 2014 #44

But giving some people more power than others arbitrarily doesn't make things better. DanTex Apr 2014 #47

True democracy would destroy America hack89 Apr 2014 #51

you mean like if the presidency were decided by 51% of the popular vote? CreekDog Apr 2014 #53

No - there are serious checks to an imperial presidency hack89 Apr 2014 #61

you can already see that in states Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #111

The Bay Area has been voting to give you more support CreekDog Apr 2014 #237

politics should effect basic services Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #244

Equal representation doesn't require "true Democracy". DanTex Apr 2014 #55

I am loathe to change anything hack89 Apr 2014 #59

That's the very reason things won't change -- the people with power don't want to give it up. DanTex Apr 2014 #63

But they won't give it up if it will harm them hack89 Apr 2014 #66

Exactly. People with privilege don't want to give up that privilege. DanTex Apr 2014 #68

This is where your argument fails Lonusca Apr 2014 #83

In that case, the question is, why doesn't Staten Island get two senators to defend itself? DanTex Apr 2014 #85

Because it's not a state. Lonusca Apr 2014 #106

States aren't people, and state lines don't justify gross inequality of representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #112

I agree with you there. Lonusca Apr 2014 #131

The thing is, there are little guys that don't live in little states. DanTex Apr 2014 #132

"and yet they don't get two senators of their own to protect them from the bullies." EX500rider Apr 2014 #268

No, they don't. They have to share 2 senators with 20 million other people. DanTex Apr 2014 #270

They have 2 Senators like every other American does. EX500rider Apr 2014 #271

Not so good with math, huh. I guess division and proportionality are kind of advanced concepts. DanTex Apr 2014 #274

No, its quite true, EVERY American has 2 Senators. (not counting DC) EX500rider Apr 2014 #276

But the amount of representation per capita, which is what matters, is grossly unequal. DanTex Apr 2014 #279

Which is what matter to you you mean, I like the current system. EX500rider Apr 2014 #284

It's what matters in terms of equal representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #289

The people HAVE equal representation in the House and the States have equal representation.. EX500rider Apr 2014 #316

Yes, the senate was designed as an unequal, undemocratic body. This is a bad thing. DanTex Apr 2014 #320

The "problem" is that you can't differentiate between an objective and a side effect badtoworse Apr 2014 #321

Of course I can. But the objective doesn't justify the inequality of representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #322

We'll just have to disagree about whether the structure of the Senate is good or bad. badtoworse Apr 2014 #323

Would you change the electoral college? Or give representation to DC in the house/senate? DanTex Apr 2014 #333

DC representation, No. Electoral College, maybe - I need to think about it. badtoworse Apr 2014 #334

How do you justify DC not even having one representative in the house? DanTex Apr 2014 #335

"That seems like a pretty straightforward case of taxation without representation" badtoworse Apr 2014 #337

Inequality would be the states with large populations Jenoch Apr 2014 #328

States are not people. They don't need to be equally representated. DanTex Apr 2014 #331

Unequal in your mind, making the States have some equal rights in my mind. EX500rider Apr 2014 #341

no they don't and in DC they have no representation in the Senate, do you like that? CreekDog Apr 2014 #325

Yes they DO have equal in the House and DC was set up like that for a reason. EX500rider Apr 2014 #340

Half right FBaggins Apr 2014 #342

No, they don't, stop posting nonsense CreekDog Apr 2014 #343

Wasn't talking about DC and i even said "except DC" in a previous post. EX500rider Apr 2014 #344

you were being an apologist for the 2nd class status of DC citizens CreekDog Apr 2014 #345

I am sure MUSt know what I meant more then me, huh? LOL EX500rider Apr 2014 #346

"than" CreekDog Apr 2014 #347

And who doesn't love a grammar nazi? EX500rider Apr 2014 #348

Is your caps lock key broken? pintobean Apr 2014 #349

no, but sometimes that finger is busy CreekDog Apr 2014 #350

That's no surprise. pintobean Apr 2014 #351

no, they share their senators with 20 million other people CreekDog Apr 2014 #324

The make up (statewide election, 6 year terms, and separation of powers) would still be the purpose TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #231

Point taken. nt Lonusca Apr 2014 #308

Yes, people are selfish. DanTex Apr 2014 #196

RI has many urban minorities hack89 Apr 2014 #202

Not really. RI is whiter than the nation as a whole. DanTex Apr 2014 #204

Who knows? hack89 Apr 2014 #206

Rhode Island's interests are a lot more like New York's and California's than Wyoming CreekDog Apr 2014 #241

No. They just like having two Senators hack89 Apr 2014 #254

Rhode Islanders opinion on war, mass transit, global warming are ignored CreekDog Apr 2014 #257

Several huge assumptions there hack89 Apr 2014 #286

Maybe because most people don't believe pipoman Apr 2014 #171

California has stronger laws protecting its rural environment than Wyoming does CreekDog Apr 2014 #245

"Rural environment", not so much the people who live there... pipoman Apr 2014 #294

California has stronger laws to protect people than Wyoming (saw you try to move the goalposts btw) CreekDog Apr 2014 #295

The real problem edhopper Apr 2014 #32

because there aren't enough House seats CreekDog Apr 2014 #35

That's a good point. TDale313 Apr 2014 #285

Because of the collusion between the two parties during redistricting alarimer Apr 2014 #205

Leaving aside all the arguments below, is the problem with America right now the Senate? hughee99 Apr 2014 #40

I'm surprised that people are actually defending this grossly undemocratic practice. DanTex Apr 2014 #43

i'm guessing based on some of the responses that we'd end up with more gun control CreekDog Apr 2014 #54

That sounds about right! DanTex Apr 2014 #57

Now it makes sense why you would advocate for this. nt hack89 Apr 2014 #92

so that's the minority you were concerned about CreekDog Apr 2014 #93

Minority has other meanings besides race hack89 Apr 2014 #103

you used the word "racist" not me CreekDog Apr 2014 #107

Because you think you are subtle hack89 Apr 2014 #109

The US Constitution was a compromise designed to protect the "rights" of slave-owners. Romulox Apr 2014 #60

Not with the district system, no. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #71

The system was designed so that Senators represented the states, not the people. badtoworse Apr 2014 #84

did it work beautifully to pass the Civil Rights Act? Answer: No CreekDog Apr 2014 #89

We still have a country functioning under the same constitution more than 200 years later. badtoworse Apr 2014 #94

which sort of made sense when there were 13 independent former colonies Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #187

We still have great differences between the states badtoworse Apr 2014 #213

this is on every issue CreekDog Apr 2014 #246

States really are independent functioning political units with interests driven by local issues badtoworse Apr 2014 #307

We can't, we don't, we won't, and ..... oldhippie Apr 2014 #96

We can't get the red out Apr 2014 #97

Let's cut the crap. MicaelS Apr 2014 #100

Obviously - nt badtoworse Apr 2014 #104

+1 n/t X_Digger Apr 2014 #117

democratic representation, proportional to the population is not "crap" CreekDog Apr 2014 #126

Umm, no. Actually what the OP is calling for is equality. DanTex Apr 2014 #127

let's cut the crap Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #188

Unfortunately there is nothing that will be done about it. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #114

One must understand the problems with a pure democracy and why we have a republic... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #115

Having a republic doesn't require grossly unequal representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #125

A democracy would not work for the U.S. Jenoch Apr 2014 #119

That doesn't justify unequal representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #124

The U.S. Federal system of representation of The People Jenoch Apr 2014 #134

It was a useful compromise for the 18th century, I'll give you that. DanTex Apr 2014 #135

"Changing to a more equal system wouldn't result in large population states having all the power..." Jenoch Apr 2014 #137

I think each person should have equal representation. Pretty simple. DanTex Apr 2014 #138

You're breaking it down to individuals. Jenoch Apr 2014 #152

I know how the government was set up. That doesn't make it just. DanTex Apr 2014 #198

Where do you live? Jenoch Apr 2014 #265

Right now I live in NYC. DanTex Apr 2014 #266

You are still confused. Jenoch Apr 2014 #267

I don't care about what was intended. I care about equality. DanTex Apr 2014 #269

Slavery was abolished 149 years ago. Jenoch Apr 2014 #275

They wouldn't have zero say. They would have the same amount of say per capita DanTex Apr 2014 #278

I'm not in favor of mob rule. Jenoch Apr 2014 #283

Me neither. But I am in favor of equal representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #288

Staten Island does not get its own senator because Jenoch Apr 2014 #290

Again, I absolutely understand why the senate was set up the way it was. DanTex Apr 2014 #291

The people of Staten Island get equal representation in the house.. Jenoch Apr 2014 #292

Right, but not in the senate. Which means that overall they are underrepresented. DanTex Apr 2014 #293

it's working as the founding fathers intended? you mean half slave half free nation? CreekDog Apr 2014 #248

Yes it is working as it was intebded. Jenoch Apr 2014 #272

they intended we'd fight a civil war and lose hundreds of thousands of lives? CreekDog Apr 2014 #298

Fascinating that support for unequal representation and for the NRA are almost 100% correlated here. DanTex Apr 2014 #129

Fascinating that support for these guys is here at all. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #147

no, and i'm getting tired of correcting you CreekDog Apr 2014 #251

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #273

was it "great" for black people? CreekDog Apr 2014 #297

'Mob rule'? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #329

The elephant in the room is RKBA badtoworse Apr 2014 #180

And it's pink pintobean Apr 2014 #189

Well, that's one of the elephants. Race is another one. DanTex Apr 2014 #197

What privilege? badtoworse Apr 2014 #208

The privilege of over-representation in the Senate. DanTex Apr 2014 #211

That is not a privilege. Representation in the Senate was never intended to be based on population. badtoworse Apr 2014 #217

Of course it's a privilege. DanTex Apr 2014 #219

I'm not justifying anything - there is no need to. badtoworse Apr 2014 #229

Of course you are. You are justifying inequality of representation. DanTex Apr 2014 #238

How can we have a Republic in which 20% of the states have 51% of the Representatives? n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #144

Oh that's completely fair because the op lives in one of the 20%.. pipoman Apr 2014 #319

because democracies are based on the principle of one person one vote CreekDog Apr 2014 #326

The House is more evenly distributed by population KamaAina Apr 2014 #145

you're asking about party affiliation CreekDog Apr 2014 #150

No, I meant small-d democratic KamaAina Apr 2014 #151

well then what is your solution? CreekDog Apr 2014 #156

Fair, nonpartisan redistricting like we now have in California KamaAina Apr 2014 #157

and for the Senate? CreekDog Apr 2014 #158

Don't have a solution there KamaAina Apr 2014 #159

if you don't have a "solution" then you do think the Senate is a problem CreekDog Apr 2014 #161

Maybe that's why I don't have a solution KamaAina Apr 2014 #163

It's the United STATES of America. MineralMan Apr 2014 #148

did i ask you how difficult it would be? no. CreekDog Apr 2014 #155

Your question deserves to be disregarded pintobean Apr 2014 #160

are you in charge of what questions get asked around here? CreekDog Apr 2014 #164

No one needs to be in charge pintobean Apr 2014 #167

so you're saying James Madison floated a turd when he opposed the non-proportional Senate? CreekDog Apr 2014 #170

It sounds like you pintobean Apr 2014 #175

..."it sounds like you don't want us posting things you disagree with" badtoworse Apr 2014 #177

i didn't ask you not to post unless it violates the TOS or community standards CreekDog Apr 2014 #181

You didn't ask me any thing at all. MineralMan Apr 2014 #173

yes i did ask you a question CreekDog Apr 2014 #174

I think you misunderstand how DU works. MineralMan Apr 2014 #178

wrong. CreekDog Apr 2014 #192

If I have violated a DU rule, please alert on my post. MineralMan Apr 2014 #209

you were just wrong CreekDog Apr 2014 #210

Actually, anyone can post anything. MineralMan Apr 2014 #218

I don't think posters here really have any idea what "pure democracy" in the US would look like theboss Apr 2014 #149

nobody proposed a pure democracy. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #190

The Senate was never intended to be democratic, but as a check on the "mob rule" of the House... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #162

Nailed it. DemocraticWing Apr 2014 #281

I am in favor of bicameral legislatures. Democracyinkind Apr 2014 #186

Most of the western world has abolished bicameralism as we know it Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #250

Regarding the overrepresentation of less populous states, it is still the norm in Western Europe ... Democracyinkind Apr 2014 #309

It is really quite simple if you think about it The Straight Story Apr 2014 #194

We are a Representative Republic, not a Democracy. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2014 #201

Our Senate was a compromise. Laelth Apr 2014 #214

which founders and which states supported that compromise? CreekDog Apr 2014 #258

I am not following you. Laelth Apr 2014 #259

you're saying the vote was unanimous? CreekDog Apr 2014 #263

It was unanimous - all 13 states ratified the constitution. badtoworse Apr 2014 #301

don't play games CreekDog Apr 2014 #302

Who's playing games? Rhode Island was the 13th state to ratify the constitution... badtoworse Apr 2014 #304

Count me among those who cannot follow you joeglow3 Apr 2014 #367

that the Senate was not proposed only as an equal proportioned body CreekDog Apr 2014 #368

Why the hostility? Laelth Apr 2014 #313

Not to nitpick, but you skipped about a decade of history there... Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #264

Quite true. Laelth Apr 2014 #312

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2014 #252

I agree with you 100%, the Senate was a bad idea then and it's a bad idea now Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #260

That's how the Romans did it. Laelth Apr 2014 #314

The Romans also had slavery and a whole lot of other things... Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #318

The Senate is not there to respond to the demands of the people Warpy Apr 2014 #277

For states' power concerns, can I suggest the Penrose method of square root voting power? muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #311

You forgot one important thing Warpy Apr 2014 #339

It's also similar in role to the upper houses of some other bicameral legislatures. Gormy Cuss Apr 2014 #336

Thanks for getting the point. Warpy Apr 2014 #338

This is why Gerrymandering is such a vicous crime. bullimiami Apr 2014 #280

This is why we have the worst society for the common person in the developed world. Romulox Apr 2014 #317