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OmahaBlueDog

(10,000 posts)
50. While I'm not against single payer, I think there is a seriously false premise here
Sat Mar 22, 2014, 11:25 AM
Mar 2014
...physicians are placed in an “ethical bind” as they practice under “a corporate medical model that threatens to squeeze the humanity out of our interaction with our patients.”


I don't see physicians as victims of a soul-crushing corporate system. I see them as equal players in a game that has four players: the physicians, Pharma, the for-profit health insurance market, and hospital networks. As with all games, the players are sometimes partners and sometimes opponents, but they all have one goal -- skim as much money from the system as possible.

Yes, all of these players, at some level, are there to help people and improve health outcomes -- in the same way that American Eagle wants to sell you trendy clothes or that Chipotle wants to sell you addictive, overly large burritos. However, the principal goal of all of these enterprises is to make money.

The narrow and ultra-narrow networks were a decision of the insurers, not us.


Look closer. The decision is partly driven by insurers, to be sure. However, the system is equally driven by hospitals and physician networks. Nowhere is that more evident than Nebraska: Alegent (a network of Catholic hospitals) and Creighton (the hospital associated with the Jesuit university of the same name) merged to form Alegent-Creighton Health. They have their own physician network, their own clinic, and their own pharmacies to which they try to steer you. This caused the Nebraska Medical Center (the University hospital in Omaha), Bryan-LGH (the hospitals in Lincoln), and Methodist to form their own counter alliance. So, now, money that could have been spend on improving patient outcomes is being spent on advertising campaigns. Hospitals invest millions in upgraded birthing suites to impress would-be parents into having their offspring in one network's hospital or the other, and then getting them hooked on taking their precious bundle to that network's pediatricians.

Insurers like physician network deals because they get a rate guarantee across specialties, and they get to offer customers something that doesn't have the annoying features of an HMO ("look Ma, no referrals&quot , but (in practice) offers them all of the benefits of an HMO.

I'd add one more thing. If you think single-payer in America would be see-any-doctor-you-want, get-any-procedure-you-need, and get-any-drug-you-want, I personally doubt it. Not even Medicare works that well. First, if government single payer comes, the likelihood is that it will look like the world's largest HMO. Being that this is America, a lot of doctors will simply opt out if they see this as a pay cut. They'll go private-pay only, or they'll leave and go care for ex-pats in Belize and Nicaragua. Many Hospitals will offer the cheapest, least amount of service they can get away with (to be fair, some do that now).

I'm not knocking you or your desire to see an equitable system (and I think it's a great post); I simply think greed is vastly underestimated as a factor in your last paragraph.

For better or worse, I think we'll end up with something like half-assed single payer Eventually, Republicans will "fix what is wrong with Obamacare". That will principally mean letting insurers sell across state lines and a bunch of tort protection. As with wireless companies, this will reduce the number of insurance players and increase the sizes of the companies. As with wireless companies, eventually we'll all choose from one of 4-6 networks based on cost and coverage. By coverage, I don't just mean conditions that are covered - I mean coverage area -- places where they do (and do not) have doctors. As with wireless companies, that won't mean much to urban dwellers, but will mean a lot to the rural and exurban.
there is only ONE provider who accepts Covered California plans in my area.... mike_c Mar 2014 #1
"There is no place for private for-profit insurance in health care. They add zero value, and are... CurtEastPoint Mar 2014 #2
I got slammed when i pointed that out awhile back. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #3
Yikes. What happens if you move to another county? suffragette Mar 2014 #27
I have no idea. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #33
Well, I think you raised an excellent point and one that could be a hard suffragette Mar 2014 #35
Or spend a lot of time on the road from one state to another? Lars39 Mar 2014 #34
Great point suffragette Mar 2014 #36
This is my issue. I am always travelling, it's my job... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #44
bull. emergency care is covered wherever you are in the US. elehhhhna Mar 2014 #46
At higher rates perhaps. Lars39 Mar 2014 #49
Yep, in my area very few doctors accept any exchange plans at all. Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #4
The fact is..... cynzke Mar 2014 #22
Beginnings of a two tier system Kilgore Mar 2014 #25
It leads to an interesting question: should you force doctors to accept a plan? theboss Mar 2014 #26
3-tier: those in red states w no expansion Lars39 Mar 2014 #37
that's what you have in single payer countries treestar Mar 2014 #40
My hubs employer is a Fortune 100 company and we have narrow networks too elehhhhna Mar 2014 #47
That's what we had before too, and a lot of those folks couldn't get insurance if they Hoyt Mar 2014 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author questionseverything Mar 2014 #72
if you want more, go outside the exchanges. crimeariver1225 Mar 2014 #5
Then fight with exchanges Aerows Mar 2014 #7
Regardless of "how it works" forthemiddle Mar 2014 #42
as of today, you can keep your insurance that you previously had. Promise kept. crimeariver1225 Mar 2014 #83
Should we repeal the ACA? JoePhilly Mar 2014 #6
The ACA needs serious adjustments Aerows Mar 2014 #8
So that's a "no", correct? JoePhilly Mar 2014 #9
JoePhilly, do me a favor Aerows Mar 2014 #12
I asked a simple question, why not answer it? JoePhilly Mar 2014 #13
it should not be repealed, but it does need some fixes noiretextatique Mar 2014 #14
Thank you, I agree, Aerows Mar 2014 #19
Well I will give you the answer you want...NO. zeemike Mar 2014 #16
Agreed. Aerows Mar 2014 #21
And the only argument against it that can be made is zeemike Mar 2014 #23
Sure, I'd support that. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #24
No it is not step one...it is not even step 0 zeemike Mar 2014 #30
You see it as complaining while others see it Lars39 Mar 2014 #38
I see lots of "pointing out what needs fixing", very little HOW to do it. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #41
It's a hard problem to solve, but we'll get there. Lars39 Mar 2014 #52
ACA made my choices dramatically worse, policy-wise... Thank goodness for the 2-year extension! ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #43
So what made your pre-ACA plan, non-ACA compliant? eom 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #56
Lack of maternity care for one... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #82
Good luck against big pharma ramapo Mar 2014 #18
I know. Aerows Mar 2014 #20
no just amend it for now Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2014 #31
Unless you think handing big insurance a hundred billion a year weakens them... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #45
We are going to be stuck with these vultures between us and Health CARE for a LONG time. bvar22 Mar 2014 #10
They are the obstacle between us and health care..... cynzke Mar 2014 #32
Without a deductible, your premium would be hundreds of dollars more every month. Hoyt Mar 2014 #60
i wonder when we will see the numbers questionseverything Mar 2014 #73
I am too. bvar22 Mar 2014 #75
about the 80% thing questionseverything Mar 2014 #76
Duh. Igel Mar 2014 #11
Limited choice of doctors is a part auntsue Mar 2014 #15
Hell, it's a part of TRICARE, too! And if you go "out of network" you're paying for the privilege. MADem Mar 2014 #77
NJ networks are more limited than pre-ACA ramapo Mar 2014 #17
I have had a BCBS PPO plan years before Obamacare through my doc03 Mar 2014 #28
This is my experience as well BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #29
+1 area51 Mar 2014 #53
That stood out for me as well. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2014 #69
i am questioning this statement questionseverything Mar 2014 #74
One thing that people need to remember about ACA eridani Mar 2014 #39
I'm on Medicare, but when my wife signed up on Minnesota's MineralMan Mar 2014 #48
While I'm not against single payer, I think there is a seriously false premise here OmahaBlueDog Mar 2014 #50
I agree with a lot of that. Personally, I'm fine with letting insurance companies take on risk and Hoyt Mar 2014 #55
Jesus Christ, the AEI again? that's two AEI and one OP citing The Blaze. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #51
I'm behind on my sources background, Lars39 Mar 2014 #54
OK... PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #57
Thank you! Lars39 Mar 2014 #59
The OP also cites another RW organization PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #61
Hard to keep up sometimes! Lars39 Mar 2014 #63
Not really. It's all a simple Google search away. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #64
Thanks for the reminder to check sources. Lars39 Mar 2014 #65
The premise of the spin is absurd. ProSense Mar 2014 #68
This crap is being spread all over the Internet. ProSense Mar 2014 #66
If the AEI were the only source for the OP, you'd have a legitimate gripe eridani Mar 2014 #78
You want more links? Here-- eridani Mar 2014 #80
I posted an analysis that supports what you're saying about a month ago: TexasTowelie Mar 2014 #62
I have also gotten the advice to go with the highest deductible plan BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #67
It's actually the mix of the deductibles and the percentage reimbursement levels. TexasTowelie Mar 2014 #70
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #71
The bronze plan is obviously the best--unless you get expensively sick eridani Mar 2014 #79
Thanks BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #81
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