General Discussion

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)

47. Well, since everybody loves anecdotal data

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 06:00 PM

Mar 2014

I got an asthma attack around one of these just the other day.

I am pretty sure the head of department is citing things like I don't know NIH, because it is not quite perjury when you say a white lie, to the board of supervisors, but it is pretty damn close.

But the Cancer Society is citing the FDA

https://www.cancer.org/myacs/eastern/areahighlights/cancernynj-news-ny-ecig-health-vote

Here, from these loons

Acetaldehyde (MS)
Benzene (SS)
Cadmium (MS)
Formaldehyde (MS,SS)
Isoprene (SS)
Lead (MS)
Nickel (MS)
Nicotine (MS, SS)
N-Nitrosonornicotine (MS, SS)
Toluene (MS, SS)

https://www.tobacco.ucsf.edu/10-chemicals-identified-so-far-e-cig-vapor-are-california-prop-65-list-carcinogens-and-reproductive

Here, from an actual journal

http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/12/10/ntr.ntt203.full

Sorry cannot give you more than the link

Tad more neutral

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/05/tobaccocontrol-2012-050859.abstract

Here is when the FDA did the studies, 2009

http://www.stopcancerfund.org/uncategorized/are-e-cigarettes-safer-than-regular-cigarettes/

Here, a primer from the Oregon Dept of Healht

https://public.health.oregon.gov/PreventionWellness/TobaccoPrevention/SmokefreeWorkplaceLaw/Documents/E-cigFactSheet.pdf

By the way, the policy statement is exactly where we are going.

And to be non biased, a pro vaper paper

http://www.vapersclub.com/8BiggestElectronicCigaretteMythsx.pdf

I think that is enough.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 OP

they aren't like cigarettes and they aren't tobacco products. cali Mar 2014 #1

Exactly how are they not tobacco products? Is the nicotine artificial? CBGLuthier Mar 2014 #2

Tobacco isn't the only plant that has nicotine. Mariana Mar 2014 #7

Does the amount of nicotine in e-cigarettes continue the addiction? If not then why continue to pay Tikki Mar 2014 #60

Because they enjoy it. Mariana Mar 2014 #64

Here is the problem…we need statistics on how many e-cigarette users actually quit the nicotine... Tikki Mar 2014 #74

I think they shouldn't be sold to minors. Mariana Mar 2014 #79

I wonder if nicotine patches have become a fad…Stimulants have all levels of addiction... Tikki Mar 2014 #85

Must be a modern version of Sherlock HockeyMom Mar 2014 #128

What will you people do with legal Marijuana? HockeyMom Mar 2014 #133

It is a modern version. Mariana Mar 2014 #147

The nicotine addiction isn't the big problem healthwise...its the Tar and OTHER chemicals VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #111

Addiction is a problem…and it costs money and health to maintain…do we want another generation... Tikki Mar 2014 #134

Okay then.,....so is caffeine and so sugar. VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #136

Already stated…nicotine in a difficult addiction…it is highly addictive and difficult to wean from.. Tikki Mar 2014 #141

Actually, most major brands will not continue to burn like they used to. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #137

No that changed when they came under the purview of the FDA... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #138

I unfortunately still smoke and the Marlboro lights I buy will go out. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #139

thats them....and that is now.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #140

Yours did what? Continue to burn? A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #146

yes and all but 5 brands did so...until they came under FDA.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #156

Nicotine itself is not a carcinogen. DanTex Mar 2014 #13

Yes and no Sgent Mar 2014 #14

still and all though hfojvt Mar 2014 #20

No and no. DanTex Mar 2014 #21

We know it raises blood pressure Sgent Mar 2014 #31

That's true. DanTex Mar 2014 #41

Well, it doesn't exactly sound benign in the cancer area NoOneMan Mar 2014 #61

I'll settle for "no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in DanTex Mar 2014 #66

There is some evidence NoOneMan Mar 2014 #68

There's also evidence of beneficial health effects of nicotine. DanTex Mar 2014 #75

Even Crack and Heroin have a positive effect or two NoOneMan Mar 2014 #76

Those also have a lot of negative effects, beyond just a few ambivalent sentences in an abstract. DanTex Mar 2014 #77

Nicotine is found in some foods naturally Autumn Mar 2014 #30

When people say "the juice" with regards to truedelphi Mar 2014 #115

It's an oil that you mix flavors or nicotine in and vape. Autumn Mar 2014 #122

It is the actual consumed substance in an e-cig (or at least refillable ones). Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #126

I did not like the caramel coffee. To me it tastes burnt. Autumn Mar 2014 #149

No argument there. And many of the "tobacco" flavors taste like licking an ashtray. -nt Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #152

Isn't propylene glycol one of the ingredients in anti freeze? truedelphi Mar 2014 #159

antifreeze is ethylene glycol energumen Mar 2014 #178

Because it does not come from tobacco jberryhill Mar 2014 #33

Um..because there is no tobacco? SomethingFishy Mar 2014 #90

You are aware SoCalNative Mar 2014 #93

I would prefer a ban of all pharmaceutical advertising on television ... MindMover Mar 2014 #3

Part of it, not enough outrage nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #4

Yes, but without the commercials, how would I know what to ask my doctor about when hughee99 Mar 2014 #88

What a coincidence pinboy3niner Mar 2014 #94

Symptoms were generally mild and may include dry mouth, coma, blindness, and "fatal events". Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #101

The ones I've seen made for pot are designed to put a solid piece of bud into. herding cats Mar 2014 #5

Yes they are nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #8

Why they'd want to do that is beyond me. herding cats Mar 2014 #11

Because if I smoke my crack in one of these things nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #15

Maybe, I guess. herding cats Mar 2014 #18

I am just paraphrasing experts. I report in this case nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #22

What if the juice contains zero nicotine? RandiFan1290 Mar 2014 #24

According to county staff (heath and Human Services) nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #27

Where was the info coming from. To date, no comprehensive studies have been done on OregonBlue Mar 2014 #45

Well, since everybody loves anecdotal data nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #47

Will there be a full list of things that should be regulated as things they are not? cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #6

You will make light of it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #9

If he topic is not carcinogenic effect the tobacco analog is a game for cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #29

So let's cut to the chase nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #32

having just said I think they should be 18+... cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #39

Well it is easier to get ahead of the curve in public health nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #40

And I am all for telling them otherwise. cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #42

Well, you will be outvoted on this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #44

I'm not sure your information is correct. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #67

Well if not intended it has resulted in this nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #70

I really don't have an issue with banning their use in indoor public spaces. Outdoors? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #71

Well for the same reason they don't want people smoking at the beach nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #72

So are plastic bottles, snack wrappers, disposable cups, soda cans.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #78

And my local beaches have tightly and enforced regulations nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #80

We certainly wouldn't want roving bands of violent nicotine junkies disturbing the beach. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #97

Depends on what you put on that vaping device nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #106

So, your argument is fairly specious. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #112

No, that is not my argument nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #117

Don't forget disposable diapers zappaman Mar 2014 #81

Do you have a link for this? The angry bird vape? Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #46

Yup, and I did not think I would have to look for it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #48

Nadine! Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #49

So you think both the American Heart Association and Attorney General Beau Biden are lying? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #50

I'm asking for a link for a vaporizer with angry birds for sale. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #54

I am sorry, but I believe those who say it is a problem nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #59

I understand why they want to regulate them. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #63

Well, aparently ejuice monkeys, does not exist either nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #65

So is this a denial, or a non-denial denial? Codeine Mar 2014 #110

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, MONKEYS?!?!? Think of the children?!? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #185

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #192

lol. what the fuck ever. that company has far more integrity than you. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #194

You might want to hit a few Attorney Generals while you are at it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #197

"hit"? WTF are you talking about? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #198

Remember to include in your slander suit nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #204

I was talking about the company that YOU dragged into this thread, brainiac. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #207

Oh and here is the jacket showing the angry birds nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #114

Wait! So because people can buy customized accessories for their e-cig.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #118

So the increase in youth using these devices is a conspiracy made up by the CDC? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #124

Of course their is an increase. There is also an increase in the # of adults using these devices. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #143

and we all should encourage their use nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #151

We should discrourage their use among minors Mariana Mar 2014 #160

Sorry, but I do not want vapors or smoke. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #162

omg, i literally lol'd at the hello kitty beer. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #184

Good Job Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #199

I do not know for what nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #201

Finding the link to the angry birds wrap. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #202

No, it was not me, it was several State Attorney Generals nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #206

*Attorneys General PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #208

Whatever, done for the day? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #217

So now you're Bill Frist? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #219

Nope, I am not, but you are into personal attacks I see nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #223

Promise? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #224

I agree sad-cafe Mar 2014 #182

example? krawhitham Mar 2014 #165

Here, even cited by a few Attorney Generals to letter to the FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #167

that is an after market product not sold by any manufacture of e-cigs krawhitham Mar 2014 #168

No, that is a product sold at the website of one purveyor of the product nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #171

You can use drinking straws and spoons to deliver cocaine frazzled Mar 2014 #10

That part drives me nuts too SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #150

I'd like to know how they're used for crack cocaine. Mariana Mar 2014 #12

Expert said they are transformed into a waxy oil nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #16

You still have to modify a standard ecig to make it compatible with that jberryhill Mar 2014 #36

Liquid meth might be more credible. Jesus Malverde Mar 2014 #56

It is a tobacco product Sgent Mar 2014 #17

Well, County Dept of Health cited WHO statistics nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #19

It is anecdotal Mariana Mar 2014 #34

They could do the studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #37

It's the best way to stop, just ask the millions who have done so. The patch? Gave me Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #92

And a thinking person has to wonder just who it is behind the mis information. truedelphi Mar 2014 #125

I agree with the statement Sgent Mar 2014 #35

Those studies have been done under controlled conditions nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #38

They contain zero tobacco; thus, not a tobacco product. Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #69

Some contain Nicotine nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #73

That's like saying anything with caffeine is coffee. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #100

This is giving me a headache. Time to take an Excedrin coffee pill. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #108

Is nicotine gum a tobacco product? The patch? Tomatoes? Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #109

Nicotine gum is actually regulated by the Food and Drug Administration nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #153

Yes. But not as a tobacco product. Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #193

Before long, you will see it, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #200

It will be regulated as a nicotine product. To do otherwise would contribute to our increasing Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #210

Which is what I posted on the OP nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #213

Are the nicotine delivery systems of patches and gum regulated? Lex Mar 2014 #23

Yes, by FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #25

That's incorrect. Which is why you have no link. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #103

It does sound weird, and truedelphi Mar 2014 #121

Yay, more drug worrier horseshit. Used for weed and coke? Am I supposed to care? TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #26

Because it has nicotine many times, in fact it is sold as a nicotine delivery device, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #28

Do you have actual names of any of these people testifying? truedelphi Mar 2014 #127

Yes, actually, plenty of them, like 18 on tape nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #130

Look, hundreds of eminent scientiss decided that the state of Calif should regulate gasoline to truedelphi Mar 2014 #144

Well, this is somethign that is not limited to my corner of the country nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #148

What brings in the controversy is the conflation. truedelphi Mar 2014 #158

What conflation? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #161

"Oh and don't expect me to post the story here"... SidDithers Mar 2014 #43

Have you tried unpluggin' it and pluggin' it back in? Skeeter Barnes Mar 2014 #52

is there anything you don't know sad-cafe Mar 2014 #51

Judge Leon disagrees Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #53

Well the judge will be busy pounding down local policies across multiple states nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #55

Shrub. In 2001. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2014 #58

By the way that judge was appointed by Dubya nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #57

My son in law used to smoke 3 packs a day with E-Cigs he has been smoke free 10 months sad-cafe Mar 2014 #62

Here's a thought, why not study these things BEFORE trying to regulate it? Major Nikon Mar 2014 #82

Because according to staff they have enough information on them already nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #84

There is no information I've seen that suggests they are more harmful than coffee Major Nikon Mar 2014 #96

And perhaps the people who testified today nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #102

Drinking is also popular with some kids. Sissyk Mar 2014 #116

Most of the "juice" is just that, liquid Warpy Mar 2014 #83

Actually if yuo are referring to the THC, we have had a few explosions here nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #86

Part 1 Sgent Mar 2014 #95

Well you can go ask the FDA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #107

It sounds more like a bunch of bathtub chemists who are trying to make it work Warpy Mar 2014 #98

They have made it work nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #104

I'm all for banning the sale of highly addictive substances to minors, but... Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #87

According to the WHO, quitting is anecdotal nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #89

I'm not talking about quitting... Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #91

Well, if they are going to Vap, do it away from me nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #105

Too late pintobean Mar 2014 #120

. Brickbat Mar 2014 #166

St. Patrick's Day is coming up pintobean Mar 2014 #173

I agree. It seems to me that the way the "authorities" are getting these devices truedelphi Mar 2014 #123

You should inform these "experts" that e-cigarettes contain no tobacco... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #99

But they have nicotine! Mariana Mar 2014 #113

It exists in thousands of plant species. Not to mention you can chemically isolate it... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #135

Journalism, do you even? Brickbat Mar 2014 #119

^^^^^^^^ n/t truedelphi Mar 2014 #131

Were the decisions scientifically based? ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #129

They are starting actually nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #132

along with wind turbines pintobean Mar 2014 #142

My cousin's friend's coworker's collegue's uncle's sister said... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #145

You mean like the County Health Department? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #154

With actual scientific proof? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #155

Well I guess the idiots at CDC and FDA and WHO, all cited nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #163

Oh, the CDC and WHO who say we need more studies SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #186

I am a reporter, I cover the news nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #189

Phillip Morris propaganda? SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #195

A little research might help nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #196

Oh gosh no.... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #203

What, big tobacco is now in the game nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #205

Er....apparently your head IS in the sand SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #209

Aparently you are into personal attacks, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #215

Nay, not at all... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #221

I'm not sure I follow the logic people are using. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #212

No, goes beyond that, but thanks for trying nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #216

So, the arguments they presented were: weed, crack and Angry Birds? PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #218

Well the article will *not be posted here* nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #220

you don't know shit about me. kthxbai PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #222

I agree entirely! SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #227

I, too, have sat through several regulatory presentations cally Mar 2014 #157

Exactly. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #164

New study confirms that chemicals in electronic cigarettes pose minimal health risk krawhitham Mar 2014 #170

And in competing studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #179

Also PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #181

Pretty flimsy evidence Major Nikon Mar 2014 #188

Fifty years from now I expect to have a few nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #191

It could just as easily go the other way Major Nikon Mar 2014 #214

It reminds me of the 1970s when big tobacco started it's rear guard battle nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #225

Did you see the mission statement of the site you linked to cally Mar 2014 #183

Longitudinal studies...I expect a repeat of those hearings nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #190

Fucking fear mongering. You can use soda cans, apples, butter or paper to "deliver THC". PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #169

And you can go argue with health officials nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #172

k PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #175

Oh and one last thing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #174

neat! PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #176

Now hold on just a minute.... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #187

a little research krawhitham Mar 2014 #177

Yup. you are right nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #180

I am fine with the FDA regulating these fujiyama Mar 2014 #211

Well I know I have a pretty bad ashtma nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #226

Since personal attacks is all that is left here, self locked, with the content of the OP nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #228