General Discussion

Dyedinthewoolliberal

(15,626 posts)

71. We are all, each of us,

Reply to Taverner (Original post)

Sat Aug 31, 2013, 10:08 AM

Aug 2013

either an owner or a worker so my response is YES! If you are not an owner, you should be organized.

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Should all jobs be union jobs? [View all] Taverner Aug 2013 OP

Yes. n/t Lugnut Aug 2013 #1

Yes. DemocraticWing Aug 2013 #2

I'd call that a start. nt PETRUS Aug 2013 #3

Yes, that would be a start. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #19

I agree with you two........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #54

After that we transition to socialism ... TBF Aug 2013 #122

My plan Taverner Aug 2013 #167

I'm not advocating anything so radical. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #182

Well hell, if my plan actually was enacted, we'd be talking several generations Taverner Aug 2013 #183

How is a new company started in your model? Adrahil Sep 2013 #226

Sub-syndicate, and then if it takes off, split off... Taverner Sep 2013 #232

Could you elaborate? Adrahil Sep 2013 #234

Syndicate A makes widgets Taverner Sep 2013 #236

What if I don't work for Syndicate A? Adrahil Sep 2013 #237

Well, considering the Syndicates are unionized and connected.... Taverner Sep 2013 #238

Hmmmm.... I'd don't like... Adrahil Sep 2013 #239

Start your own syndicate then - however, you'll have to work with others Taverner Sep 2013 #240

Way to finish my thought T... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #204

i prefer the german model where corporate governance occurs in a more democratic way La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2013 #4

Premise is every job is Union, that means go to Alabama, the Union is there too.... Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #49

yeah but jobs can ship overseas too. i think unions are great but they don't solve La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2013 #201

the unions can make it very difficult to ship jobs elsewhere antigop Aug 2013 #82

Or they can take over and occupy a closed shop......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #111

that would be perfect! nt antigop Aug 2013 #112

I think it is a great idea. hrmjustin Aug 2013 #5

I'm my only employee. Can I unionize myself? Travis_0004 Aug 2013 #6

You'll go blind ! King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #14

Depending n the industry nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #144

+1000 Fridays Child Aug 2013 #7

yes arely staircase Aug 2013 #8

What about co-ops? ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #9

That's the most ideal situation Taverner Aug 2013 #10

I think so too. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #32

Yes. delete_bush Aug 2013 #11

Yes newfie11 Aug 2013 #12

Then unions need to start letting everyone join no matter their occupation Recursion Aug 2013 #13

Unions aren't letting people "join" ??? WTF King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #21

Bwah! Try getting into, say, IBEW if you don't know somebody Recursion Aug 2013 #23

Now I'M confused. King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #27

Yeah I like the AFSCME model better Recursion Aug 2013 #28

But what do you DO for a living again? Seriously here is a link to IWEB, apprenticeship Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #50

I'm a sysadmin Recursion Aug 2013 #55

Then "everyone" better be ready to go on strike until the employer signs a contract with the Union. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #85

When AFL stops crossing carpenters' pickets? Recursion Aug 2013 #113

You think you just join and the money starts rolling in? There has to be a contract. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #123

No, I think IBEW and ILU have an interest in keeping the books closed Recursion Aug 2013 #134

So it's their fault there's not enough work at any given time? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #138

I certainly don't expect the people shut out to not be resentful Recursion Aug 2013 #139

Why resent the Unions? They don't set the production schedules. Management does. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #142

What part of this is difficult to understand? Recursion Aug 2013 #146

Is your brother being skipped over in seniority? Junior men are being put to work before him? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #147

OFFS. He's *in the union now* so it's great for him Recursion Aug 2013 #150

Yeah, I got that he's in it. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #158

That's not really what he's saying. JoeyT Aug 2013 #176

"Have a fit" That is unfair and unwarranted. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #180

Have to go against the flow here and say No. Downwinder Aug 2013 #15

i would say the option should be there, but its up to the individual if they want to join loli phabay Aug 2013 #20

That defeats and undermines the whole concept of "union". King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #22

nothing should be more important than the individuals right to decide loli phabay Aug 2013 #24

To decide what ? King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #25

to devide if they want to he a member of a union or not or just pay an agency fee loli phabay Aug 2013 #26

OK here's an example of my own King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #29

okay heres my example, i am not in the union due to not liking their politics loli phabay Aug 2013 #30

If one does not like the union one is free to seek employment someplace else ThirdWayCowplop Aug 2013 #34

Because, for example, one would like to work as a longshoreman Recursion Aug 2013 #44

Why would one want to be a member of an organization who does not want you? ThirdWayCowplop Aug 2013 #45

But what determines who gets to be a longshoreman shouldn't be Recursion Aug 2013 #47

Should probably stop trying to tie unions to criminal orginazations Lordquinton Aug 2013 #156

but remarkably accurate, even if you don't like the discription. grattsl Aug 2013 #166

Huh? Cartels aren't criminal organizations Recursion Aug 2013 #210

In most cases, business cartels are criminal whopis01 Sep 2013 #216

A labor union is definitely a cartel Recursion Sep 2013 #217

because the union is not the employer!!! grattsl Aug 2013 #163

Why should you have to pay money? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #86

i dont pay dues as i am not a member, i pay an agency fee for the negotiation etc loli phabay Aug 2013 #87

You don't have the same pay and work rules the Union workers do? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #93

everything is the same, only difference is i pay a nominal fee that covers the cost of negotiations loli phabay Aug 2013 #137

You are paying an agency when you are getting all the benefits of a Union contract? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #143

no, the agency fee means you pay the union an agency fee to represent you in negotiations loli phabay Aug 2013 #149

So you are in fact paying dues. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #152

nope, its just a miniscule fee that covers admin for negotiations loli phabay Aug 2013 #187

Can you explain this agency arrangement? I've never heard of it. Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2013 #100

I'm finding some of this hard to believe. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #145

or you dont understand the concept. which is the more plausible possibility. loli phabay Aug 2013 #151

Well you kept calling it an agency. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #153

no, you need to reread i refer to whats called agency fees. loli phabay Aug 2013 #188

And you didn't specify that a Union was that agency. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #191

you need to go learn some labor laws before you start to try to lecture people on them loli phabay Aug 2013 #193

I'm not lecturing anyone and I'm not the only one that was unclear on what you meant. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #195

hence my saying go look it up if you are confused what agency fees are. loli phabay Aug 2013 #197

Here is some info whopis01 Sep 2013 #219

I don't think that is what he is saying whopis01 Sep 2013 #218

Do you not have any of the benefits that the Union negotiated in the CBA at your workplace? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #125

Loli, unions support and donate money to politicians/groups King_Klonopin Sep 2013 #222

regardless of the politician or issue, if one does not agree with it or them one should not be loli phabay Aug 2013 #141

What issues are you at odds with? Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #159

well, i dont agree with some of their endorsements, or their stand on the 2nd amendment loli phabay Aug 2013 #190

I don't agree with everything my Union does either but I still pay dues. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #192

well if your happy paying for endorsements and donations you dont agree with loli phabay Aug 2013 #194

I'm quite happy, thanks. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #196

glad to hear it as am i loli phabay Aug 2013 #198

If every job is a union job as the original poster suggest, you can eigther join a union you disagee grattsl Aug 2013 #168

If you want the "freedom" of working more hours for less money, nobody is keeping you from it. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #170

That would be the republican postion for sure. Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #41

Flat out GOP position, that subthread was like walking through a meeting with Mitt Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #53

Haven't you guys noticed? These types of posters are part of the ...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #65

Forcing people to be in a union to work is far more evil than right to work laws. grattsl Aug 2013 #161

Being in a Union is best for them. They will make more money and spend less time doing it. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #164

Wasn't best for me. grattsl Aug 2013 #171

Whatever works for you. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #181

People that enjoy Union paychecks and benefits but don't pay dues are lowlifes. Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #81

If I am coerced to join a union.... Adrahil Sep 2013 #228

Yah, you're right... King_Klonopin Sep 2013 #242

Should military be unionized? Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #16

Worker = Soldier ????? King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #18

WTF are you talking about? Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #40

So you are of the mind that any exception discredits the general rule? King_Klonopin Sep 2013 #220

Got it... Mr_Teg Sep 2013 #221

Union workers do not usually make decision about what will be produced nor do they decide the Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #52

They do decide if they want to show up to work.... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #58

Why yes, yes it would...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #63

Yep, they should...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #57

Really? Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #59

Not necessarily, but I DO think that the mass of "SPC Joe Snuffy"....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #61

What a coincidence, there used to be a DUer named Joe Snuffy Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #96

It's the military equivalent of Smith... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #99

It's the Army equivalent of "John Q. Public" Recursion Aug 2013 #121

Ummmmm... No. Adrahil Aug 2013 #62

Any military run that way wouldn't be involved in bullshit wars.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #64

Yes, that's lovely talk Adrahil Aug 2013 #66

Thank you for your concern........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #67

Thanks for your input Comrade... Adrahil Aug 2013 #68

Nope. Just your garden variety Trotskyist........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #70

Ok squad... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #72

ALL the neo-liberals want a totally worked out socialist........... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #73

Ha... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #94

The closest was the Russian military in 1917....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #97

And do you really think that soldiers who put their lives on the line......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #117

Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Adrahil Sep 2013 #229

Why waste money on a military that couldn't fight wars? Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #78

Agree with your last sentence over the long term.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #95

What's the difference? Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #110

Well they probably wouldn't vote to go into Iraq....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #115

That's not terribly informative. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #116

As I said in another post,.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #118

That's a terrible, terrible idea. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #128

That is such bullshit... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #205

I'm guessing you have zero experience with the military. Adrahil Sep 2013 #241

Yup. King_Klonopin Aug 2013 #17

high confidence YES riversedge Aug 2013 #31

A union is the bastard child B Calm Aug 2013 #33

They should all have the option Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #35

fuckin' a. KG Aug 2013 #36

Absolutely yes!!! Sancho Aug 2013 #37

Only if the concept of "union" is reformed beyond recognition. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #38

Good point... Mr_Teg Aug 2013 #51

And another neo-liberal, Republican talking point heard from........... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #74

There's nothing "neo" about my views, and nothing liberal about yours. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #76

Please! I've NEVER claimed to be "liberal"......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #83

Every action or thought has a political implication. iemitsu Aug 2013 #132

Corruption is a different issue. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #136

Political parties change their vews and priorities over time. iemitsu Aug 2013 #148

IMO, Yes! Most employees really have absolutely no recourse for RKP5637 Aug 2013 #39

Oh hell yes! Scuba Aug 2013 #42

Everyone should have the option. Adrahil Aug 2013 #43

See post number 60...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #69

Well that can change. Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2013 #105

Yep. Exactly what I argued in posts 60, 77, and 101.... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #109

Yes it can... Which is why I should have the option... Adrahil Sep 2013 #231

Cool story, Bro! Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2013 #233

I appreciate your sincere reply. nt. Adrahil Sep 2013 #235

If the people working that job so wishes, Yes by all means. nt madokie Aug 2013 #46

Exactly. 99Forever Aug 2013 #48

Exception to "non-union jobs": no_hypocrisy Aug 2013 #56

Until the company decides to NOT take care of the workers. Or.......... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #60

We are all, each of us, Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2013 #71

I see a flaw in the theory that all jobs Jenoch Aug 2013 #75

But all employers have the POWER to screw employees........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #77

Actually, it was 'the system' Jenoch Aug 2013 #89

And I wonder if that employer would have that same pressure........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #101

I was simply attempting to point out Jenoch Aug 2013 #107

And that's fine and I even understand the sentiment....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #120

That can change fast. And tax policy as it stands certainly ain't helping. Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2013 #131

As I said, I am not anti-union. Jenoch Aug 2013 #135

I was mainly countering the idea... Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2013 #155

Absolutely. Octafish Aug 2013 #79

YES. nt LWolf Aug 2013 #80

"One Big Union" is actually a pretty old idea. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #84

Yes it is. The Wobblies developed the idea........ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #102

IWW: Industrial Workers of the World. One big UNION! Taverner Aug 2013 #124

Yes... Deuce Aug 2013 #88

Yes Skeeter Barnes Aug 2013 #90

I've let this rattle around in my head all night Ohio Joe Aug 2013 #91

How about letting the workers decide? former9thward Aug 2013 #92

This thread certainly brought out some republicans Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #98

It sure brings out worker dissatisfaction leftstreet Aug 2013 #104

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ socialist_n_TN Aug 2013 #108

I know, huh? Taverner Aug 2013 #126

pathetic, ain't it? NoGOPZone Aug 2013 #189

These people get all Ayn Randian when McDonald's workers ask for a tiny raise. Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #202

yes, either all jobs should be unionized or we iemitsu Aug 2013 #103

I am all for the government doing it's job!!! grattsl Aug 2013 #178

There is nothing inherently wrong with Unions. iemitsu Aug 2013 #213

I think we need more relevant ideas. We don't live in the 19th century any more and we need Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #106

"We don't live in the 19th century any more" Hassin Bin Sober Aug 2013 #133

And don't forget the anti-labor laws we suffer from here. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #140

A better idea would be a guaranteed minimum income, whether one works or not! reformist2 Aug 2013 #185

I fully support unions, I am a member of one (not active, I retain membership to support them). Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #200

No. But the vast majority should. nt rrneck Aug 2013 #114

Absolutely gopiscrap Aug 2013 #119

Absolutely Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #127

No. Glassunion Aug 2013 #129

Yes. The working class would be a VERY strong bloc Populist_Prole Aug 2013 #130

Of course. nt valerief Aug 2013 #154

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! grattsl Aug 2013 #157

Um, I think you want the Objectivism forum. Or Libertarianunderground Taverner Aug 2013 #160

I am a Democrat, and find myself on the left of the party on most issues. grattsl Aug 2013 #174

I don't know what line of work you're in... mike_c Aug 2013 #169

I used to be union. grattsl Aug 2013 #175

Then that Post Office union must be a thorn in your side. nt valerief Aug 2013 #177

I'm not telling anyone not to join a union. Don't make me take a pay cut to join yours. grattsl Aug 2013 #179

Shop STEWARD........... socialist_n_TN Sep 2013 #223

You must be one of those "Reagan" Democrats........... socialist_n_TN Sep 2013 #225

I agree 100 percent.... mike_c Aug 2013 #162

We in IT should have unionized in the 90s Taverner Aug 2013 #165

big YES. All of them if I had my way. k&r Little Star Aug 2013 #172

Yes jwirr Aug 2013 #173

Workers of the world, unite! But do so in small groups first. ;) reformist2 Aug 2013 #184

If you don't like unions, don't join one. See how simple it is? Nye Bevan Aug 2013 #186

Yes. Including the military. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #199

Hell yes, they should. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #203

There are good things and bad things about unions Nikia Aug 2013 #206

Thing is it's not always seniority Taverner Aug 2013 #211

Right, but if a guy who is nowhere near as good as you is ahead of you Recursion Aug 2013 #212

There's no substitute for experience upi402 Sep 2013 #230

I'm self employed. I guess I could strike on myself for better wages. oneshooter Aug 2013 #207

Yes, without a doubt. idwiyo Aug 2013 #208

Short answer: yes!!!!!! Initech Aug 2013 #209

All workers should have basic protections. hay rick Sep 2013 #214

Yup. Chan790 Sep 2013 #215

As long as everyone has to ability to opt out and not pay dues. Dreamer Tatum Sep 2013 #224

Yes! 100%!!! eom upi402 Sep 2013 #227