General Discussion

lark

(23,147 posts)

66. Hope and change have died.

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:27 PM

Aug 2013

They've been replaced with business as usual in America. We have to be attacking someone, creating opportunities for major wars all the time or the military industrial complex gets antsy and starts inventing things, like they are doing here. Obama has been co-opted, co-erced or was just a trojan horse to begin with, not sure which of these is actually true, but the result is the same regardless of the cause.

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Alan Grayson: attacking Syria is the "wrong decision," Obama "boxed himself in" w/the "redline" [View all] nashville_brook Aug 2013 OP

he sure did box himself in with the redline comment. neverforget Aug 2013 #1

that move, i think, could only come from pressure from very big interests nashville_brook Aug 2013 #2

He doesn't need to be. If the U.N. found evidence DirkGently Aug 2013 #5

You are right. avaistheone1 Aug 2013 #7

it's almost as if it's not for the good of the country, but rather for the good of a balance sheet. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #99

Because it is the same PNAC crew that is currently pushing for this war,. same as Iraq. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #115

and as Grayson points out, the evidence is actually pointing to conventional weapons nashville_brook Aug 2013 #17

Congress & America are tired of the conceit of the Unitary Executive DirkGently Aug 2013 #30

i don't think Congress wants to have to have this power. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #39

Good. Indecision on this "issue" is better than a decisive DirkGently Aug 2013 #41

yes, i think that's the overriding feeling here. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #44

And that's the problem (we now want the U.N. to stop looking) in a nut shell. Little Star Aug 2013 #56

lack of transparency is becoming quite a theme in this administration. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #58

True and it's really sad. There was so much hope. sigh Little Star Aug 2013 #62

Hope and change have died. lark Aug 2013 #66

Sad but it sure does look that way. I hope I'm wrong. I'd be happy to be wrong. Little Star Aug 2013 #67

I keep hoping I'm wrong as well. lark Aug 2013 #68

i don't believe that he was aware of the pressure that would come from his campaign funders, nashville_brook Aug 2013 #75

is it that noticeable? Supersedeas Aug 2013 #95

He's not boxed in. Any more than he was boxed in when he said, grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #33

good point -- he'll back out of a position when the big dogs howl loudly enough nashville_brook Aug 2013 #49

Ah is that another of those 3 D chess moves? n/t doc03 Aug 2013 #76

I just heard an interview with an ambassador on MSNBC neverforget Aug 2013 #77

Actually, he didn't box himself in as much as republicans would like you to believe. Veilex Aug 2013 #107

Obama has to protect his "Red Line" credibility...by killing people. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #3

clearly it's the sensible thing to do. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #4

Bravo, Congressman Grayson! K&R. bullwinkle428 Aug 2013 #6

nice to a hear real discussion of the interests involved nashville_brook Aug 2013 #10

DURec leftstreet Aug 2013 #8

K&R! Fantastic Anarchist Aug 2013 #9

Recommended. But you know that's not a real box and it's easy Autumn Aug 2013 #11

indeed -- that's the job of the Commander in Chief, not Raytheon nashville_brook Aug 2013 #12

Options like delivering Cheney to the Hague, if he cares about war crimes. Faryn Balyncd Aug 2013 #14

i think this might be the source of progressive pushback, if he cared about warcrimes nashville_brook Aug 2013 #20

We need a "Dispatches From Under The Bus" Forum Doctor_J Aug 2013 #13

my sense of Grayson is that he's one of the most intelligent House members we've seen in ages nashville_brook Aug 2013 #16

Agreed. n/t Laelth Aug 2013 #55

+1 Trazillion Little Star Aug 2013 #70

Excellent idea!!!! HooptieWagon Aug 2013 #18

a dungeon for bus-tossers. LOVE! nashville_brook Aug 2013 #24

Thank You (again), Congressman Grayson. bvar22 Aug 2013 #15

the smart ones aren't dazzled by PR games nashville_brook Aug 2013 #98

The dumbest yet possibly most human reasons a politician would go to war is HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #19

it's definitely worth hoping that Obama understands this nashville_brook Aug 2013 #22

I agree, the advocacy of people he turned to for advice HereSince1628 Aug 2013 #27

BBC: USA will look inept and weak if they don't bomb... upi402 Aug 2013 #21

the Beeb has been out in front on this...remarkable coverage and analysis. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #23

I'd rather look inept and weak moonlady0623 Aug 2013 #57

ewww! "dead...pumped up with testosterone" nashville_brook Aug 2013 #74

Many more bad images set to be reality moonlady0623 Aug 2013 #86

Thank you Alan Grayson! Scuba Aug 2013 #25

Rookie mistake, or an excuse? truebluegreen Aug 2013 #26

Yes, possibly just an excuse for the mic to do what it wants... polichick Aug 2013 #28

Add this point: the evidence points to an unauthorized launch by a local unit commander. leveymg Aug 2013 #29

yes! the BBC was reporting on this yesterday. holy cow. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #36

I think there is a strong possibility it was a rogue commander davidpdx Aug 2013 #111

the reThugs are hoping he does attack Syria...so they can Impeach him ElsewheresDaughter Aug 2013 #31

maybe not impeach formally, but definitely politically. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #37

Even if the GOP doesn't Impeach, it will divide the Dems going into '14. Like '68. leveymg Aug 2013 #52

eggsactly. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #54

Thnx. ;-) leveymg Aug 2013 #61

Let's hope so ElsewheresDaughter Aug 2013 #63

grounds for Impeachment...Cantor and crybaby are waiting ElsewheresDaughter Aug 2013 #32

not disagreeing...just for information purpose... nashville_brook Aug 2013 #38

heard it on msnbc or faux this morning.....Rollcall has article..... ElsewheresDaughter Aug 2013 #43

that makes perfect sense. this would create a record of who will be vulnerable on the position nashville_brook Aug 2013 #53

I concur n/t ElsewheresDaughter Aug 2013 #59

what's the problem moonlady0623 Aug 2013 #60

It's members of congress. It has nothing to do with 'preteen idol worship' or 'rose colored glasses' stevenleser Aug 2013 #72

Really? moonlady0623 Aug 2013 #87

Yes, really. Did you not understand the post to which you were responding? It's about congress. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #91

Oh I understand moonlady0623 Aug 2013 #93

All I can think of fredamae Aug 2013 #34

i think this is the worst part of the whole thing: that it undermines our trust. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #35

I believe in Grayson also fredamae Aug 2013 #42

and that's by design -- the Tea Party/Drown Government crowd wants us to have no faith in ourselves nashville_brook Aug 2013 #47

I also trust Grayson. He gives me hope for change when most others don't.... Little Star Aug 2013 #69

Send money railsback Aug 2013 #40

send money to who? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #45

Doh! railsback Aug 2013 #48

^^ so you think Grayson is going out on a limb with this...(wait for it)...to FUNDRAISE? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #50

Well, duh, yeah - check out his fundraising railsback Aug 2013 #81

He can get donations from corporations. They're aren't many corps who are Ds and actually support... Sunlei Aug 2013 #118

For such a reputedly intelligent man, the President seems to have a real learning disability Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #46

K&R Thank you. felix_numinous Aug 2013 #51

We need to make a loud noise against war with Syria NOW! WHEN CRABS ROAR Aug 2013 #64

K&R idwiyo Aug 2013 #65

I usually agree with most of what Grayson states, but... DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #71

that jumped out at me as particularly ballsy. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #73

But the WH doesn't want to wait for U.N. inspections. DirkGently Aug 2013 #80

"request to extend"... not dismiss them from happening DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #83

He can unbox himself by convening Congress and Cleita Aug 2013 #78

Well said. n/t DirkGently Aug 2013 #101

K & R AzDar Aug 2013 #79

"Nobody wants this except for the military industrial complex - ding ding ding ding ding!!!!!!! Initech Aug 2013 #82

yeah man.... fight the good fight.... pass the bong! DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #84

Seriously? I was quoting what was in the OP. Initech Aug 2013 #85

yes, I know. I wasn't directing it at you, but that statement... DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #88

We are in agreement there! Initech Aug 2013 #90

Whatever we call it -- MIC, PNAC, there are large DirkGently Aug 2013 #92

Suspect the interests of the MIC will win out over the public interest indepat Aug 2013 #89

could be, but we aren't going to roll over and shut up. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #100

How is he boxed in? Spirochete Aug 2013 #94

Obviously that wouldn't be a Grayson message nashville_brook Aug 2013 #97

To the HON. Mr Grayson, BillyRibs Aug 2013 #96

I HATE our politics.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #102

Seriously, he is saying the chemical weapons were not used? treestar Aug 2013 #103

listen to the clip -- he's saying the evidence is ambiguous nashville_brook Aug 2013 #113

Fuck the Red Line RiverStone Aug 2013 #104

Grayson FTW yoloisalie Aug 2013 #105

Sniping is easy, making decisions is the hard part....n/t 4bucksagallon Aug 2013 #106

you're suggesting Grayson is "sniping" -- is that what you're calling it? nashville_brook Aug 2013 #112

good advice. I don't think the red line comment was intended to 'guarantee war' . Sunlei Aug 2013 #108

you know, of course, that the US has the largest stockpile of chemical weapons in the world nashville_brook Aug 2013 #114

I don't know about stockpiles and yes, I know the US gov has a longgggg history of extermination. Sunlei Aug 2013 #116

. blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #109

Republican leadership (oxymoron) The Wizard Aug 2013 #110

good points!I think the republicans elected are used to lobbyists,corp boards,political 'charities', Sunlei Aug 2013 #119

The Powers To Be now are the same as they were under Bush. They transcend presidents. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #117