General Discussion

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

87. Great. We agree on 99% of the facts of the matter.

Reply to ljm2002 (Reply #83)

Mon Aug 19, 2013, 01:15 AM

Aug 2013

Thank you for correcting me on bf vs spouse. I will not make that error again.

In the UK, you are subject to airport security searches when you change aircraft. I found that out the hard way once when I missed a connecting flight in Heathrow due to having to go through security again. Once you are under the control of a particular country's airport airside, you are subject to any searches and detention they want to make unless you for some reason have diplomatic immunity. Being a journalist or friend or spouse of a journalist does not confer that immunity.

Snowden, for instance, found that he could not leave the airport airside at Sheremetyevo airport until Russia gave him leave to enter. He had no right to refuse being searched while there. He was utterly subject to Russia's customs, immigration and border control policies.

If you are thought to be trafficking in stolen goods or espionage, you will be detained and searched and if contraband is found you will be subject to arrest.

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The game is over. Even Andrew Sullivan has jumped ship of the NSA and GCHQ. In Greenwald's defense [View all] kpete Aug 2013 OP

I don't know that the game is over ... LearningCurve Aug 2013 #1

Andrew Sullivan...meet the underside of the bus!!! Matt is currently changing the oil. Rex Aug 2013 #2

Oh please, most people foaming at the mouth over the NSA can't stand Sullivan. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #7

Yup, had no use for him... one_voice Aug 2013 #16

It is no big deal, he should be familiar with being under the bus by now. Rex Aug 2013 #24

Put me in the category of "foaming at the mouth" for forcing the NSA to adhere to the Constitution. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #64

Happily under the bus for "forcing the NSA to adhere to the Constitution." chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #114

Oh please, where on earth did you get the infantile notion that you have to love someone in sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #104

I see a lot of classic authoritarianism. The is a need to establish a hard and fast rhett o rick Aug 2013 #142

That's a good question. And since there are those who apparently think only in black and white terms sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #151

Another thing that usually stumps authoritarians is asking them to relate their rhett o rick Aug 2013 #154

That is why they have no credibility and why the support for Whistle Blowers is growing even in this sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #155

Only a sith deals in absolutes. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #177

No need to like Sully to agree with him on this issue, because Straight Society does Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #120

The thing is, its not about personalities. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #169

Why are you hating on A'murca?! truedelphi Aug 2013 #182

I know. Warren DeMontague Aug 2013 #186

the only pleasure I get from reading your defense of the surveillance state is Swagman Aug 2013 #173

Good one. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #34

Oh I am sure when he gushes about Obama again Rex Aug 2013 #50

I would quote Sherlock 'the game is afoot' Lifelong Protester Aug 2013 #3

Sorry. It's not a game. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #4

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #15

never mind... one_voice Aug 2013 #20

Glad to be on your nerves. MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #165

Um... winning side? Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #183

What do you think is going to happen to Glenn? morningfog Aug 2013 #18

LOL! Pick a lane when it comes to Sullivan. Most people foaming at the mouth over the NSA don't like KittyWampus Aug 2013 #5

They will become Demotullivans BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #10

That is some black and white thinking don't you think? Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #37

thank you Mojorabbit kpete Aug 2013 #144

100 points for using the ohheckyeah Aug 2013 #52

"hair on fire" has evidently run it's course frylock Aug 2013 #164

Evidently - it was be nice to mix ohheckyeah Aug 2013 #170

Its funny. Almost like we have the ability to see shades of grey quakerboy Aug 2013 #106

lol! Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #129

or just pick and choose from a wide variety of sources to that you hear only what you want to hear. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #159

Well, I would agree quakerboy Aug 2013 #174

When it comes to conservatives he seems to be one of the more sensible ones. Ed Suspicious Aug 2013 #160

I agree the law used to detain him is ridiculous Egnever Aug 2013 #6

And when the stories are saying he was transporting documents between Poitras and Greenwald... n/t sweetloukillbot Aug 2013 #12

And theres that! Egnever Aug 2013 #19

If you like the NSA surveillance, then you don't like the publishing of the documents. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #99

I dislike the surveillance and the leaks Recursion Aug 2013 #110

Ms. Poitras knows better than to let him "transport" unencrypted documents HumansAndResources Aug 2013 #96

So because they're encrypted it's okay to smuggle them and he shouldn't be questioned? sweetloukillbot Aug 2013 #97

It'd be interesting to know how reliable Greenwald and Poitras's internet access has been muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #107

So what? I don't give a hoot who he talked with or visited. It's snappyturtle Aug 2013 #13

Well of course you dont Egnever Aug 2013 #17

I was referring to the detention of Miranda at Heathrow. What snappyturtle Aug 2013 #22

Ok lets see if we can nail this down Egnever Aug 2013 #25

Miranda isn't an idiot that's how. snappyturtle Aug 2013 #27

oh ok Egnever Aug 2013 #30

OH...my mistake! Didn't know there is a law against Miranda snappyturtle Aug 2013 #36

Hang out with people who traffic in stolen things and watch how often you and your dwelling are stevenleser Aug 2013 #40

I am assuming that is OK with you? And this searching snappyturtle Aug 2013 #53

I'm no expert in British law, but generally, when you transit airports, you agree to being searched stevenleser Aug 2013 #59

Ah the reporter from RT! I note, Steve, that you failed to correct the verbiage of the Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #121

So many mistakes to correct. #1 - I announced on my show my refusal to work with Russian media until stevenleser Aug 2013 #122

Come on, tick tock... stevenleser Aug 2013 #133

OH MY GOD! are you REALLY going to defend this Steven??? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #54

If only they would have served a warrant. Rex Aug 2013 #62

Why would they serve a warrant? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #145

No deity needs to be involved. It's extremely straightforward. As someone else noted... stevenleser Aug 2013 #63

Does the water EVER get too heavy, Steven?? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #68

I always call 'em as I see 'em. This is very straightforward. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #72

I don't think the documents are 'stolen', under UK law muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #108

he jumped the shark some time ago Skittles Aug 2013 #93

Except no one on your side has been able to refute my points on this. That suggests that your side stevenleser Aug 2013 #117

I see two sides, one calls Miranda very properly Greenwald's partner the other says Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #123

Still waiting for your apology for that and the other incorrect accusation stevenleser Aug 2013 #124

You call them 'boy friends' and 'bfs' over and over again in this thread. You should Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #128

The fact that your accusations are incorrect have been pointed out multiple times now. stevenleser Aug 2013 #130

"on my side"'??? Skittles Aug 2013 #163

"our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #89

Doesn't the water ever get too heavy to carry, Steven? MNBrewer Aug 2013 #185

Considerng GG has stated he carries the docs with him everywhere he goes Egnever Aug 2013 #41

That's just the point. If Miranda is a 'potential' co-conspirator snappyturtle Aug 2013 #49

Sorry I dont follow that logic Egnever Aug 2013 #56

Re-read this tomorrow. It's simply explained. nt snappyturtle Aug 2013 #65

There is no logic to follow. You didn't miss anything. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #70

Well apparently Greenwald isnt as bright as you thought Egnever Aug 2013 #90

Yes, that is interesting. How come Berlin didn't detain him? snappyturtle Aug 2013 #92

Why would they? Egnever Aug 2013 #95

Plus, few countries examine you closely on the way out. It's when you come in that they take a look stevenleser Aug 2013 #119

How can we make any comments about the content? snappyturtle Aug 2013 #138

Which is why you have to get at it to know. Which is why when he flew through an international stevenleser Aug 2013 #141

I will agree that the 'curious' had the ability to bully a traveler; snappyturtle Aug 2013 #148

As you noted earlier, ultimately no one is going to disagree with the ability of a country to search stevenleser Aug 2013 #149

He wasn't doing anything illegal in either country, but Germany doesn't have a law muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #109

Is there some reason why a journalist should NOT carry their work related equipment with them sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #152

Sure AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #39

He chose to hang out with the co-conspirators of someone indicted for espionage stevenleser Aug 2013 #43

Right, right AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #44

LOL, because your scenario is the same thing. stevenleser Aug 2013 #48

LOL AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #57

Your analogy is apples and oranges, but you knew that. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #67

What an absurd framing that is. ljm2002 Aug 2013 #55

Once again... stevenleser Aug 2013 #76

Once again... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #83

Great. We agree on 99% of the facts of the matter. stevenleser Aug 2013 #87

Again, though... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #91

The only classification that would matter in this case is diplomat with diplomatic immunity. stevenleser Aug 2013 #116

Since we know this is about journalism... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #131

LOL, you forgot the sarcasm tag. stevenleser Aug 2013 #132

Mistake? You are up and down this thread calling them 'boys' and 'bf' and boyfriends Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #125

I had no idea and the moment it was pointed out to me I stopped. Still waiting for your apology stevenleser Aug 2013 #126

That's hilarious. You were told several times and persisted with the 'bf'. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #134

You've been shown that this is untrue, and I await your apology stevenleser Aug 2013 #136

I quoted you from this very thread. As true as it gets. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #139

This has been explained again and again. We both know you are wrong. stevenleser Aug 2013 #140

+1 NealK Aug 2013 #88

the "chose to hang out with..." canard is typically used by shitbags.. frylock Aug 2013 #166

Are you now, or have you ever been, an associate of a journalist? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #111

He plays one on Faux, like about everyone else there. TheKentuckian Aug 2013 #150

Actually, I think he may only claim to be an ex-Democratic party officer and PR flack muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #153

He's a journalist? tazkcmo Aug 2013 #175

A spouse? Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #146

Not hang out with an associate of Snowden (not Greenwald) that had access to documents and stevenleser Aug 2013 #147

Don't you just love the willy nilly acceptance of these snappyturtle Aug 2013 #60

There is no such thing as an illegal search when transiting international airports. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #69

I will concede, regretfully, that you are probably correct. snappyturtle Aug 2013 #86

People take laptops with them all the time when they travel. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #100

Not sure what your point is there Egnever Aug 2013 #101

What do you want to bet the documents have to do with the film being made on the topic of Snowden JDPriestly Aug 2013 #105

Right. Law enforcement should always trust a perps word and assume perps are too smart to do dumb stevenleser Aug 2013 #38

Wish you were posting more often. Nice to have someone trying to educate some of these lumpy Aug 2013 #98

The crime is the surveillance program, not the informing of the American people about the JDPriestly Aug 2013 #102

We can argue about that, but the person under indictment for espionage is Snowden. stevenleser Aug 2013 #118

you rethink all of this yet? snooper2 Aug 2013 #161

He wasn't arrested GeorgeGist Aug 2013 #181

Why do you call it a theft? another_liberal Aug 2013 #187

Filming a documentary has now become terrorism? reusrename Aug 2013 #21

It was never terrorism Egnever Aug 2013 #26

"nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with his connection to stolen classified docs" NealK Aug 2013 #80

The police says it was about terrorism muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #112

It is AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #35

There it is. I knew once the details came out there would be a good reason. stevenleser Aug 2013 #23

I wasn't aware he was charged with a crime. What crime was he snappyturtle Aug 2013 #31

Snowden has been indicted for espionage. Anyone meeting with him or his friends stevenleser Aug 2013 #33

Anyone meeting with him , Rumold Aug 2013 #47

Do you feel the same about Manning? AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #66

What same way? Who is meeting with Manning's friends? nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #74

You know exactly what I mean AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #78

No, I don't. We're discussing a very specific issue here, one that doesnt have a parallel with stevenleser Aug 2013 #79

Got it AnalystInParadise Aug 2013 #84

Got it. You expect me to guess at the exact question you are asking. No thanks. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #85

Wow! That's a big leap. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #103

No it isn't. If you traffic in stolen goods or information that is what will happen to you and those stevenleser Aug 2013 #115

Traffic in stolen goods? And you call yourself a journalist? Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #176

three hops.. frylock Aug 2013 #167

Yea well you know those English Egnever Aug 2013 #32

But is it Terrorism? Savannahmann Aug 2013 #42

It's definitely a stretch in terms of that law (which as egnever notes is an odd one anyway) but... stevenleser Aug 2013 #45

You would think it was OK. Savannahmann Aug 2013 #46

I'm glad you are accustomed to the fact that I use good reasoned arguments. nt stevenleser Aug 2013 #51

Actually, no. Savannahmann Aug 2013 #71

No one has been able to refute any of my points on Snowden/Manning/Greenwald/Assange yet. stevenleser Aug 2013 #77

You think this is fair muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #113

Thanks kpete....good tosee Sullivan take this stand. snappyturtle Aug 2013 #8

Wow. Fantastic statement of principle. Thank you Andrew Sullivan. eom 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #9

Bush Sullivan: Bad. Obama Sullivan: Good. Greenwald Sullivan: Bad. WorseBeforeBetter Aug 2013 #11

So true, Sullivan only changes his mind MNBrewer Aug 2013 #14

Good point. aquart Aug 2013 #29

Sullivan is a conservative. Didn't he work for Margaret Thatcher? Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #28

Sullivan has been a hard-core Obama supporter, so this is quite the development to note quinnox Aug 2013 #58

Sullivan is a conservative libertarian struggle4progress Aug 2013 #75

Andrew Sullivan endorsed Senator Barack Obama for the 2008 US President PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #94

Both things can be true at the same time. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #127

From your link: "... Sullivan describes himself as a conservative and is the author of struggle4progress Aug 2013 #157

It's sloppy of Sullivan to claim Miranda "detained ... because his partner embarrassed the American struggle4progress Aug 2013 #61

It's just a guess but I think the Guardian paying for the trip snappyturtle Aug 2013 #81

Is the game over or is it now afoot? Rex Aug 2013 #73

Can't stop the POLICE STATE ... blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #82

"even?" treestar Aug 2013 #135

It's a strange kind of appeal to authority isn't it? So if Pat Buchanan came out in favor of GG and stevenleser Aug 2013 #137

k&r Little Star Aug 2013 #143

Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Aug 2013 #156

well if Andrew Sullivan is against it...then it MUST be wrong Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #158

NSA GHCQ and then we have BND, MAD, GRU,SVR, MSS Progressive dog Aug 2013 #162

I detest Sullivan, but have to admit, he's right here. closeupready Aug 2013 #168

Only when the NSA and DHS cease to exist is the game "over" Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #171

It's Andrew Sullivan vs. the President On the Road Aug 2013 #172

Gob-smacking, just bloody gob-smacking! another_liberal Aug 2013 #178

Andrew Sullivan is over. (BTW he supported the invasion of Iraq, too) uhnope Aug 2013 #179

I'm still pissed at him for being such an ass to Naomi Klein, but he has a point here: arcane1 Aug 2013 #180

The game is on.... zentrum Aug 2013 #184