General Discussion

Bonobo

(29,257 posts) Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:00 PM Aug 2013

110

It's a shame that Democratic abandonment of anti-war has left the door open to Ron Paul types [View all]

Same thing for support of spying and the security state...not to mention talk of cutting social security as well as the adoption of "deficit-cutting" austerity rhetoric.

But it's probably as good a sign as any that somewhere along the way we have lost sight of who we are and lost our way.

Time to start thinking about our political principles again and demand that our leadership represent them.

Why don't I attack Republicans more is a question I am sometimes asked... well the simple answer is that they will never listen to me. I have no influence with them, no leverage. But I do, or should, have at lease SOME with my own party. Collectively we all do.

That's why it is so important to work to effect change amongst ourselves because if we don't demand more from ourselves, who will?

165 replies

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It's a shame that Democratic abandonment of anti-war has left the door open to Ron Paul types [View all] Bonobo Aug 2013 OP

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ mike_c Aug 2013 #1

nope arely staircase Aug 2013 #161

K&R forestpath Aug 2013 #2

I find it really hard to be angry at Libertarians sometimes NuclearDem Aug 2013 #3

To many, politics is like a football game. 1KansasDem Aug 2013 #4

Agree, well said! It should never be my team right or wrong! Our team is wrong RKP5637 Aug 2013 #101

I'll stand with a Libertarian on matters of personal freedom and better foreign policy Hydra Aug 2013 #7

Not hard at all for me. Hayabusa Aug 2013 #159

^^^THIS^^^ truebluegreen Aug 2013 #5

Attack republicans, and keep attacking them. JaneyVee Aug 2013 #6

I attack Republican policies, I attacked Bush policies, right on their own territory for sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #14

Amen Chaco Dundee Aug 2013 #70

Even the ones adopted by Obama for his Administration? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #48

The "Centrist" "New Democrat" Party Leadership has created a HUGE Vacuum on The Left. bvar22 Aug 2013 #8

yes they have. For the first time in 19 years I don't consider myself a democrat. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #18

I admire you bvar mick063 Aug 2013 #27

Beautiful, inspiring words. blue neen Aug 2013 #56

Inspiring words indeed. truebluegreen Aug 2013 #62

That's when it became increasingly obvious to Americans that LBJ 's claims that we blue neen Aug 2013 #66

Your reference to the daily body counts reminded me that Stanley Karnow, in his HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #121

LBJ allowed the American people to believe that General Westmoreland's strategy HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #119

Excellent post Bvar, as usual! n/t sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #77

"carried into practice for all our citizens" Agony Aug 2013 #92

+ a gazillion, and chervilant Aug 2013 #95

I didn't know FDR said that. Thanks for sharing. Omnith Aug 2013 #97

That is a part of his State of the Union Address in 1944. bvar22 Aug 2013 #105

Those words look so foreign in the current political landscape. DirkGently Aug 2013 #106

40 years of propaganda... nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #138

+1 woo me with science Aug 2013 #153

And the Wall Street Dems bounced Henry Wallace for Harry Truman. Octafish Aug 2013 #154

This isn't the first time either Hydra Aug 2013 #9

Yeah, the Tea Party ran on decreasing corporate influence and increased regulation geek tragedy Aug 2013 #15

Who in the last 30 years has run on that? Hydra Aug 2013 #21

Shitty economy, angry voters, old white electorate geek tragedy Aug 2013 #53

Progressive Dems did just fine in the 2010 mid-terms. It was Blue Dogs who took a hard HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #123

Blue Dogs live in more conservative, less diverse districts. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #126

I find it surprising that democrats are okay with losing votes to Paul. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #32

letting the Loyalists, of course, blame the outrage against banksters itself... MisterP Aug 2013 #41

In the absence of any alternate, people will chose other... Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #10

K&R n/t 1awake Aug 2013 #11

K&R MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #12

Only a mentally defective nutjob would suggest that Obama and the Democrats geek tragedy Aug 2013 #13

+1...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #25

maybe I'm a nutjob, but the way I see it, people don't get behind chained CPI unless a democrat Ed Suspicious Aug 2013 #30

So, you think social security cuts and austerity would be less likely under geek tragedy Aug 2013 #52

not being that other guy is not a good enough campaign slogan. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #58

What kind of a Democrat offers a chained CPI? leftstreet Aug 2013 #31

A flawed one. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #55

Fuck Ron Paul and his supporters, btw. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #16

I think the Paul the Elder has retired now. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2013 #75

He's a messianic figure to that crowd. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #76

What a substantive response LWolf Aug 2013 #104

No need to overthink matters when it comes to those who would abolish income taxation geek tragedy Aug 2013 #108

That sounds like what a colleague told me LWolf Aug 2013 #135

Hey, if you think there's a nuanced reason to vote geek tragedy Aug 2013 #139

. LWolf Aug 2013 #143

Yep, you're absolutely right. reusrename Aug 2013 #148

Fuck this Geek Tragedy disidoro01 Aug 2013 #110

The problem is the war itself. nt geek tragedy Aug 2013 #114

That door should always be open. Skip Intro Aug 2013 #17

Exactly! What is so wrong with saying I agree with you about this and I disagree with you ... slipslidingaway Aug 2013 #26

Nothing. And I'll say this about Libertarians, Dems, and repubs - Skip Intro Aug 2013 #51

Funny that you say that ... slipslidingaway Aug 2013 #59

fuck Ron Paul and his crazed supporters JI7 Aug 2013 #19

and dumbasses that make he and his supporters possible fascisthunter Aug 2013 #34

no, those who want to cut off funding for things like educaiton, health care JI7 Aug 2013 #60

". . . those who want to cut off funding for things like education . . . " Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #98

or Philadelphia. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #131

You do realize that the president wants to profitize education, and Obamacare codifies Doctor_J Aug 2013 #117

This, this, this ... slipslidingaway Aug 2013 #20

Rand Paul: Any attack on Israel will be treated as an attack on the United States ProSense Aug 2013 #22

Yeah, yeah, we get it, the Pauls are assholes. No big fucking revelation there. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #33

Hillary: We’ll “totally obliterate” Iran Fumesucker Aug 2013 #43

To think that she is in an opposition party to the Party of Bomb bomb bomb Iran, McCain. bahrbearian Aug 2013 #96

All the Paulites here should take notice.......... Historic NY Aug 2013 #85

Honest to goddess, Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #99

Yes, and are you disagreeing that Ron Paul is not anti-war? n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #155

2014 vote - Iliyah Aug 2013 #23

We did think we were electing someone who represented our principles LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #24

The anti-war left is succeeding wildly. You need to replace your CMOS battery. ucrdem Aug 2013 #28

Oh, so that's why the drone program is expanding. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #35

As an alternative to ground war, drones have much to recommend them. ucrdem Aug 2013 #36

No, they don't. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #37

Despicable, sure. Creating terrorists? The evidence suggests otherwise. ucrdem Aug 2013 #44

Nice disidoro01 Aug 2013 #111

the politicians count on that kind of attitude to continue doing whatever they want. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #40

Drone warfare and ground warfare are worlds apart. ucrdem Aug 2013 #46

I won't accept either. I will not vote for democratic candidates who vote for either gound war or liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #47

Assange said the same thing basically. joshcryer Aug 2013 #64

Post that most clearly shows Bonobo's point! Go Bonobo! nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #78

Yeah, I would have picked that one too. Bonobo Aug 2013 #79

A friend from DU sent me a bumper sticker that reads - "It's hard to convince people that you are Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #82

What point? That Rand Paul has no particular objection to drone warfare? ucrdem Aug 2013 #90

"As an alternative to ground war" Maedhros Aug 2013 #133

OMG Caretha Aug 2013 #145

LOL Iliyah Aug 2013 #39

DURec leftstreet Aug 2013 #29

We're going to keep defining JoeyT Aug 2013 #38

I'm anti-war left. I have no desire to hop on Ron Paul's bandwagon. ecstatic Aug 2013 #42

Fine, but the fact remains that the door was opened. Bonobo Aug 2013 #45

Will you get in bed with Wyden and Udall? nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #74

There is a puritopian element on the left that refuses to give an inch to the reality BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #49

"a fair amount of Muslim male energy still dedicates itself to perfecting the underwear bomb liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #88

Terra snark...yawn BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #94

so the gop wont listen to you and your solution is to attack the left? Dustin DeWinde Aug 2013 #50

Nope, wrong on all counts. Bonobo Aug 2013 #54

.... Phlem Aug 2013 #57

you got it!! Exactly the same way people who criticize American foreign policy in the Middle East Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #107

talk till you are blue in the face, i will never support rand paul Dustin DeWinde Aug 2013 #112

neither will I nor will the posters on this forum who oppose the authoritarian surveillance state Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #115

Who is Al Qaeda? Caretha Aug 2013 #146

We abandoned being anti-war? When? Generic Other Aug 2013 #61

You are not alone. n/t PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #67

still anti-war here. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #68

The Party surely did burnodo Aug 2013 #102

Then they left a lot of people behind Generic Other Aug 2013 #140

Right back into the fold! burnodo Aug 2013 #141

DUers said they "deparately needed to be heard" long ago. joshcryer Aug 2013 #63

And the truth above will set us free. Safetykitten Aug 2013 #65

Easy, the old coalition is shattered nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #69

It feels so good to be in control of one's own vote again. Not automatically liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #71

I have been told that both parties fear a voter revolt nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #72

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Iliyah Aug 2013 #73

then there is hope. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #80

Abandonment? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #81

well they used to pretend to be anti-war anyway. Now they don't really even pretend anymore. liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #83

Heard the same crap circa 2000. Back then it was poor Al Gore who, ironically, wasn't... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #84

Joe Lieberman. Nuff said. nt Bonobo Aug 2013 #86

He wasn't running for President. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2013 #150

Ron is really hip to the serious problems with the NSA eridani Aug 2013 #87

When has the Democratic Party ever been anti-war? Drunken Irishman Aug 2013 #89

This message was self-deleted by its author darkangel218 Aug 2013 #91

it is an unfortunate reality that many young people are likely to be lost to the libertarian cause Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #93

You are so right! Caretha Aug 2013 #147

What war has Obama started? He ended the war in Iraq pnwmom Aug 2013 #100

Easy solution. woo me with science Aug 2013 #103

I don't think there are too many subjects that I would agree with Ron Paul. B Calm Aug 2013 #109

It's a shame so many DUers continue to prop up the myth Blue_Tires Aug 2013 #113

The 3rd Way Dems, at least among the rank-and-file, are either short sighted or too moonstruck Doctor_J Aug 2013 #116

The issues of the security state, NSA spying, and errant foreign policy totodeinhere Aug 2013 #118

du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #120

Succinctly written, Bonobo! LittleBlue Aug 2013 #122

Could not agree more libdude Aug 2013 #124

Pseudo-Pacifism Cartoonist Aug 2013 #125

I think Rand Paul is a crass opportunist - I think Ron Paul is a genuine ideologue Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #128

Not on humanitarian grounds nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #136

Its hilarious watching people react when getting outflanked on these traditional issues NoOneMan Aug 2013 #127

I agree, Bonobo. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #129

I can understand going where you think you can do some good... Ohio Joe Aug 2013 #130

kick woo me with science Aug 2013 #132

How would anyone think Rand Paul is anti-war? Progressive dog Aug 2013 #134

. LWolf Aug 2013 #137

"Siding with" burnodo Aug 2013 #142

Obama ended the IRAQ war and has started none, Progressive dog Aug 2013 #156

I'd like a further clarification on "Ended the Iraq war" burnodo Aug 2013 #157

He Ended the war, did you know we have embassies and contractors in Progressive dog Aug 2013 #158

Not yet burnodo Aug 2013 #160

Oh well, I haven't seen a lot aboiut the US fighting in Iraq Progressive dog Aug 2013 #162

Going to? burnodo Aug 2013 #164

I just replied to what you said. Don't you follow the news? Progressive dog Aug 2013 #165

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #144

there simply is no "vision thing" about the Democratic Party these days. At least in 1964 we were Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #149

BIG K&R! nt snappyturtle Aug 2013 #151

kick woo me with science Aug 2013 #152

The Democratic Party was never a pacifist party. CJCRANE Aug 2013 #163