HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Report Indicates Snowden/... » Reply #66
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:50 AM

66. More absurd, deflecting, spinning horseshit, right on schedule.

One hop, two hops, three hops. It's all absurd, and the story changes constantly as new smoking guns are revealed.

They are sweeping up and storing everything they possibly can even *before* they defensively howl about and point to all these manufactured lies and excuses. They are hoovering it all up in defiance of our Constitution, in defiance of the fact that they are supposed to have a warrant and probable cause for every piece of information *before* they put it into their filthy database. They are sucking up information on every single American, treating every single one of us as a criminal suspect. The rationalizations are *still* garbage. They are *still* horseshit. Spying on their own citizens is what authoritarian states do, and the incessant, lying propaganda in defense of the indefensible is what authoritarian states do, too.

Don't entertain this garbage. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022981567

*************************************

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

**************************************

Here's the upshot of their philosophy, glaringly clear even through the incessant lying, shit flinging, and obfuscation. The motto is: "Collect it all." (and store it)



Former AF intelligence agent and whistleblower, Tice, has already said they are collecting and storing it all, including telephone, computer, and email content.



"NSA, today, is collecting everything -- including content -- of every digital communication in this country, both computer and phone, and that information is being stored indefinitely," Tice said. "And that's something that they're lying about."


So has former counterterrorism agent, Clemente:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

"Former FBI counterterrorism agent Tim Clemente told CNN last month that, in national security investigations, the bureau can access records of a previously made telephone call. "All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not," he said. Clemente added in an appearance the next day that, thanks to the "intelligence community" -- an apparent reference to the NSA -- "there's a way to look at digital communications in the past.""


Dianne Feinstein has already let slip that they can access content after the fact.

Mueller initially sought to downplay concerns about NSA surveillance by claiming that, to listen to a phone call, the government would need to seek "a special, a particularized order from the FISA court directed at that particular phone of that particular individual."

Is information about that procedure "classified in any way?" Nadler asked.
"I don't think so," Mueller replied.

"Then I can say the following," Nadler said. "We heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day. We heard precisely that you could get the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that...In other words, what you just said is incorrect. So there's a conflict."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the head of the Senate Intelligence committee, separately acknowledged that the agency's analysts have the ability to access the "content of a call."



More here:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

"The Washington Post disclosed Saturday that the existence of a top-secret NSA program called NUCLEON, which "intercepts telephone calls and routes the spoken words" to a database. Top intelligence officials in the Obama administration, the Post said, "have resolutely refused to offer an estimate of the number of Americans whose calls or e-mails have thus made their way into content databases such as ­NUCLEON."

Earlier reports have indicated that the NSA has the ability to record nearly all domestic and international phone calls -- in case an analyst needed to access the recordings in the future. A Wired magazine article last year disclosed that the NSA has established "listening posts" that allow the agency to collect and sift through billions of phone calls through a massive new data center in Utah, "whether they originate within the country or overseas." That includes not just metadata, but also the contents of the communications.

William Binney, a former NSA technical director who helped to modernize the agency's worldwide eavesdropping network, told the Daily Caller this week that the NSA records the phone calls of 500,000 to 1 million people who are on its so-called target list, and perhaps even more. "They look through these phone numbers and they target those and that's what they record," Binney said.
Brewster Kahle, a computer engineer who founded the Internet Archive, has vast experience storing large amounts of data. He created a spreadsheet this week estimating that the cost to store all domestic phone calls a year in cloud storage for data-mining purposes would be about $27 million per year, not counting the cost of extra security for a top-secret program and security clearances for the people involved.

NSA's annual budget is classified but is estimated to be around $10 billion.


Documents that came to light in an EFF lawsuit provide some insight into how the spy agency vacuums up data from telecommunications companies. Mark Klein, who worked as an AT&T technician for over 22 years, disclosed in 2006 (PDF) that he witnessed domestic voice and Internet traffic being surreptitiously "diverted" through a "splitter cabinet" to secure room 641A in one of the company's San Francisco facilities. The room was accessible only to NSA-cleared technicians.

AT&T and other telecommunications companies that allow the NSA to tap into their fiber links receive absolute immunity from civil liability or criminal prosecution, thanks to a law that Congress enacted in 2008 and renewed in 2012. It's a series of amendments to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, also known as the FISA Amendments Act.

That law says surveillance may be authorized by the attorney general and director of national intelligence without prior approval by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, as long as minimization requirements and general procedures blessed by the court are followed.
A requirement of the 2008 law is that the NSA "may not intentionally target any person known at the time of acquisition to be located in the United States." A possible interpretation of that language, some legal experts said, is that the agency may vacuum up everything it can domestically -- on the theory that indiscriminate data acquisition was not intended to "target" a specific American citizen.

Director of National Intelligence Michael McConnell indicated during a House Intelligence hearing in 2007 that the NSA's surveillance process involves "billions" of bulk communications being intercepted, analyzed, and incorporated into a database.



We are LIED to, brazenly and incessantly. The upshot is:

"Collect it all."

The Crux of the NSA Story in One Phrase: 'Collect It All'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023261311




Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 269 replies Author Time Post
ProSense Aug 2013 OP
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #1
ProSense Aug 2013 #3
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #6
ProSense Aug 2013 #10
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #19
ProSense Aug 2013 #33
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #41
ProSense Aug 2013 #53
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #74
ProSense Aug 2013 #83
AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #121
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #131
bobduca Aug 2013 #9
ProSense Aug 2013 #13
randome Aug 2013 #43
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #105
randome Aug 2013 #112
grasswire Aug 2013 #238
AverageJoe90 Aug 2013 #259
washnwmn Aug 2013 #156
grasswire Aug 2013 #239
newfie11 Aug 2013 #2
ProSense Aug 2013 #5
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #7
ProSense Aug 2013 #11
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #14
ProSense Aug 2013 #16
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #27
VanillaRhapsody Aug 2013 #50
randome Aug 2013 #56
Andy823 Aug 2013 #20
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #45
Andy823 Aug 2013 #154
Fuddnik Aug 2013 #181
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #129
Andy823 Aug 2013 #207
BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #4
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #21
Jamaal510 Aug 2013 #266
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #8
BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #12
ProSense Aug 2013 #15
Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #17
ProSense Aug 2013 #18
MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #30
ProSense Aug 2013 #37
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #55
Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #32
ProSense Aug 2013 #39
L0oniX Aug 2013 #217
grasswire Aug 2013 #25
ProSense Aug 2013 #58
Whisp Aug 2013 #85
grasswire Aug 2013 #88
Whisp Aug 2013 #93
blackspade Aug 2013 #137
Whisp Aug 2013 #218
grasswire Aug 2013 #229
Whisp Aug 2013 #231
grasswire Aug 2013 #236
Whisp Aug 2013 #241
grasswire Aug 2013 #243
Whisp Aug 2013 #244
ronnie624 Aug 2013 #263
grasswire Aug 2013 #87
ProSense Aug 2013 #89
Cha Aug 2013 #258
Recursion Aug 2013 #24
whttevrr Aug 2013 #22
Recursion Aug 2013 #26
whttevrr Aug 2013 #35
ProSense Aug 2013 #48
whttevrr Aug 2013 #51
ProSense Aug 2013 #60
baldguy Aug 2013 #152
Recursion Aug 2013 #75
whttevrr Aug 2013 #90
Recursion Aug 2013 #172
Rex Aug 2013 #180
jeff47 Aug 2013 #63
whttevrr Aug 2013 #97
jeff47 Aug 2013 #133
whttevrr Aug 2013 #139
jeff47 Aug 2013 #164
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #23
Recursion Aug 2013 #31
kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #199
bowens43 Aug 2013 #228
NCTraveler Aug 2013 #28
Enrique Aug 2013 #29
laundry_queen Aug 2013 #189
Aerows Aug 2013 #34
jeff47 Aug 2013 #68
Aerows Aug 2013 #81
jeff47 Aug 2013 #94
Aerows Aug 2013 #102
Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2013 #144
Aerows Aug 2013 #168
jeff47 Aug 2013 #158
Aerows Aug 2013 #167
jeff47 Aug 2013 #175
Aerows Aug 2013 #178
jeff47 Aug 2013 #183
Aerows Aug 2013 #186
jeff47 Aug 2013 #193
Aerows Aug 2013 #198
jeff47 Aug 2013 #205
Aerows Aug 2013 #208
jeff47 Aug 2013 #212
Aerows Aug 2013 #215
Th1onein Aug 2013 #184
jeff47 Aug 2013 #203
Th1onein Aug 2013 #220
Th1onein Aug 2013 #188
jeff47 Aug 2013 #197
Th1onein Aug 2013 #253
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #136
Whisp Aug 2013 #36
whttevrr Aug 2013 #40
AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #130
jeff47 Aug 2013 #179
Whisp Aug 2013 #222
AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #232
Whisp Aug 2013 #240
Th1onein Aug 2013 #194
GoneFishin Aug 2013 #256
Th1onein Aug 2013 #264
grasswire Aug 2013 #242
whttevrr Aug 2013 #38
ProSense Aug 2013 #44
whttevrr Aug 2013 #47
randome Aug 2013 #49
whttevrr Aug 2013 #61
randome Aug 2013 #69
jeff47 Aug 2013 #70
whttevrr Aug 2013 #109
jeff47 Aug 2013 #135
Marr Aug 2013 #42
ProSense Aug 2013 #52
whttevrr Aug 2013 #54
ProSense Aug 2013 #59
whttevrr Aug 2013 #67
ProSense Aug 2013 #71
whttevrr Aug 2013 #79
ProSense Aug 2013 #84
whttevrr Aug 2013 #92
ProSense Aug 2013 #99
whttevrr Aug 2013 #115
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #95
ProSense Aug 2013 #98
whttevrr Aug 2013 #103
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #116
nolabels Aug 2013 #126
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #140
Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #206
jeff47 Aug 2013 #78
Marr Aug 2013 #57
jeff47 Aug 2013 #77
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #46
ProSense Aug 2013 #62
millennialmax Aug 2013 #64
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #65
jeff47 Aug 2013 #82
JoePhilly Aug 2013 #111
Th1onein Aug 2013 #200
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #213
Th1onein Aug 2013 #216
LineReply More absurd, deflecting, spinning horseshit, right on schedule.
woo me with science Aug 2013 #66
ProSense Aug 2013 #73
whttevrr Aug 2013 #125
AppleBottom Aug 2013 #72
ProSense Aug 2013 #76
AppleBottom Aug 2013 #249
randome Aug 2013 #80
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #86
kentuck Aug 2013 #91
dkf Aug 2013 #96
ProSense Aug 2013 #100
dkf Aug 2013 #113
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #120
dkf Aug 2013 #124
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #148
dkf Aug 2013 #151
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #163
dkf Aug 2013 #192
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #204
dkf Aug 2013 #230
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #247
dkf Aug 2013 #248
ProSense Aug 2013 #149
dkf Aug 2013 #155
ProSense Aug 2013 #159
SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #174
randome Aug 2013 #177
SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #195
randome Aug 2013 #201
dkf Aug 2013 #202
jeff47 Aug 2013 #171
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #185
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #214
randome Aug 2013 #196
heaven05 Aug 2013 #101
randome Aug 2013 #108
heaven05 Aug 2013 #119
randome Aug 2013 #128
heaven05 Aug 2013 #132
Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #104
ProSense Aug 2013 #107
Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #118
OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #141
ProSense Aug 2013 #161
Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #209
Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #250
Le Taz Hot Aug 2013 #251
Octafish Aug 2013 #106
ProSense Aug 2013 #110
leveymg Aug 2013 #122
stevenleser Aug 2013 #114
AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #117
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #123
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #143
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #225
blackspade Aug 2013 #127
ProSense Aug 2013 #146
blackspade Aug 2013 #160
ProSense Aug 2013 #162
blackspade Aug 2013 #169
Maedhros Aug 2013 #147
ProSense Aug 2013 #157
Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #223
Cha Aug 2013 #260
Cha Aug 2013 #261
randome Aug 2013 #150
blackspade Aug 2013 #166
randome Aug 2013 #173
blackspade Aug 2013 #182
randome Aug 2013 #187
jeff47 Aug 2013 #210
Maedhros Aug 2013 #233
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #134
BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #138
Th1onein Aug 2013 #211
Maedhros Aug 2013 #234
cantbeserious Aug 2013 #142
baldguy Aug 2013 #145
Maedhros Aug 2013 #235
baldguy Aug 2013 #254
glowing Aug 2013 #153
BrainDrain Aug 2013 #165
ProSense Aug 2013 #170
Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2013 #176
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #191
DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #219
hootinholler Aug 2013 #190
Puzzledtraveller Aug 2013 #221
Union Scribe Aug 2013 #224
bowens43 Aug 2013 #226
Civilization2 Aug 2013 #227
ProSense Aug 2013 #237
sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #245
ProSense Aug 2013 #246
sgtbenobo Aug 2013 #252
Civilization2 Aug 2013 #255
Cha Aug 2013 #262
Cha Aug 2013 #257
Scurrilous Aug 2013 #265
RetroLounge Aug 2013 #267
stevenleser Aug 2013 #268
SidDithers Aug 2013 #269
Please login to view edit histories.