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usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
169. With your self righteous disdan, and dismissal of the majority here who are participating
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 11:30 AM
Jun 2013

in discussing this issue from the opposite side that you have chosen to take, how classy, yet revealing.

Here, add this to deliberations...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023019302

Government Accountability Project Statement on Edward Snowden & NSA Domestic Surveillance

I. SNOWDEN IS A WHISTLEBLOWER.

Snowden disclosed information about a secret program that he reasonably believed to be illegal. Consequently, he meets the legal definition of a whistleblower, despite statements to the contrary made by numerous government officials and security pundits. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky), Sen. Mark Udall (D-Co), Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-Ca), Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky), and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt) have also expressed concern about the potential illegality of the secret program. Moreover, Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wi) who is one of the original authors of the Patriot Act – the oft-cited justification for this pervasive surveillance – has expressed similar misgiving.

II. SNOWDEN IS THE SUBJECT OF CLASSIC WHISTLEBLOWER RETALIATION.

Derogatory characterizations of Snowden‘s personal character by government officials do not negate his whistleblower status. On the contrary, such attacks are classic acts of predatory reprisal used against whistleblowers in the wake of their revelations.Snowden’s personal life, his motives and his whereabouts have all been called into question by government officials and pundits engaged in the reflexive response of institutional apologists. The guilty habitually seek to discredit the whistleblower by shifting the spotlight from the dissent to the dissenter. Historically, this pattern of abuse is clear from behavior towards whistleblowers Daniel Ellsberg, Mark Felt, Frank Serpico, Jeffrey Wigand, Jesselyn Radack, and recent NSA whistleblower Tom Drake.

III. THE ISSUE IS THE MESSAGE AND NOT THE MESSENGER.

As a matter of course, whistleblowers are discredited, but what truly matters is the disclosure itself. Snowden’s revelations have sparked a public debate about the balance between privacy and security – a debate that President Obama now claims to welcome. Until Snowden’s disclosures, however, the government had suppressed the facts that would make any serious debate possible.

IV. PERVASIVE SURVEILLANCE DOES NOT MEET THE STANDARD FOR CLASSIFIED INFORMATION.

Many have condemned Snowden for disclosing classified information, but documents are classified if they reveal sources or methods of intelligence-gathering used to protect the United States from its enemies. Domestic surveillance that is pervasive and secret is only a valid method of intelligence gathering if the country’s enemies include most of its own population. Moreover, under the governing Executive Order it is not legal to classify documents in order to cover up possible misconduct.

V. THE PUBLIC HAS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KNOW.

In a democracy, it is simply not acceptable to discover widespread government surveillance only after a whistleblower’s revelations. Because of Snowden’s disclosures we now know that Director of National Intelligence James Clapper deliberately misled the Senate Intelligence Committee when he stated on March 12, 2013 that the NSA did not purposefully collect any type of data from millions of Americans. Regardless of the justification for this policy, the public has a Constitutional right to know about these actions.

Unfortunately, the responsibility has fallen on whistleblowers to inform the public about critical policy issues – from warrantless wiretapping to torture. Whistleblowers remain the regulator of last resort.

VI. THERE IS A CLEAR HISTORY OF REPRISAL AGAINST NSA WHISTLEBLOWERS.

By communicating with the press, Snowden used the safest channel available to him to inform the public of wrongdoing. Nonetheless, government officials have been critical of him for not using internal agency channels – the same channels that have repeatedly failed to protect whistleblowers from reprisal in the past. In many cases, the critics are the exact officials who acted to exclude national security employees and contractors from the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012.

Prior to Snowden’s disclosures, NSA whistleblowers Tom Drake, William Binney and J. Kirk Wiebe, all clients of GAP, used internal mechanisms – including the NSA chain of command, Congressional committees, and the Department of Defense Inspector General – to report the massive waste and privacy violations of earlier incarnations of the NSA’s data collection program. Ultimately, the use of these internal channels served only to expose Binney, Drake and Wiebe to years-long criminal investigations and even FBI raids on their homes. As one example, consider that Tom Drake was subjected to a professionally and financially devastating prosecution under the Espionage Act. Despite a case against him that ultimately collapsed, Drake was labeled an “enemy of the state” and his career ruined.

VII. WE ARE WITNESSING THE CRIMINALIZATION OF WHISTLEBLOWING.

During the last decade, the legal rights for whistleblowers have expanded for many federal workers and contractors, with the one exception of employees within the intelligence community. The rights of these employees have significantly contracted. The Obama administration has conducted an unprecedented campaign against national security whistleblowers, bringing more Espionage Act indictments than all previous administrations combined.

Moreover, at the behest of the House Intelligence Committee, strengthened whistleblower protections for national security workers were stripped from major pieces of legislation such as the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act (for federal employees) and the National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 (for federal contractors). If those protections existed today, Snowden’s disclosures would have stood a greater chance of being addressed effectively from within the organization.

The actions already taken against Snowden are a punitive continuation of what has become a "War on Whistleblowers." Through a series of retaliatory measures, the federal government targets federal employees who speak out against gross waste, illegality, or fraud, rather than prosecuting individuals engaged in high crimes and misdemeanors. So far as we know, not one person from the NSA has yet to suffer any consequences for ordering, justifying or participating in the NSA’s domestic spying operation.

It is the opinion of GAP that recent events suggest the full might of the Department of Justice will be leveled at Snowden, including an indictment under the Espionage Act, while those who stretched their interpretation of the Patriot Act to encompass the private lives of millions of Americans will simply continue working.

VIII. IN THE SURVEILLANCE STATE, THE ENEMY IS THE WHISTLEBLOWER.

If every action has an opposite and equal reaction, the whistleblower is that reaction within the surveillance state. Dragnet electronic surveillance is a high-tech revival of tactics used to attack the civil rights movement and political enemies of the Nixon administration. Whistleblowers famously alerted the public to past government overreach, while helping to defend both national security and civil liberties.

In contrast, secrecy, retaliation and intimidation undermine our Constitutional rights and weaken our democratic processes more swiftly, more surely, and more corrosively than the acts of terror from which they purport to protect us.

Contact: Bea Edwards, Executive Director
Phone: 202.457.0034, ext. 155
Email: [email protected]

Contact: Louis Clark, President
Phone: 202. 457.0034, ext. 129
Email: [email protected]

Contact: Dylan Blaylock, Communications Director
Phone: 202.457.0034, ext. 137
Email: [email protected]

http://www.whistleblower.org/blog/44-2013/2760-gap-statement-on-edward-snowden-a-nsa-domestic-surveillance

You prefer facts to "hyperbolic babbling" boston bean Jun 2013 #1
what's with the royal we? why not just speak for yourself? cali Jun 2013 #2
it's a quirk. Like you calling others "cupcake", I suppose. And a lot of us are sick of being called KittyWampus Jun 2013 #4
if you dont like being called an enabler markiv Jun 2013 #10
Or if you're GOING to call someone an "enabler"... ElboRuum Jun 2013 #109
I think it's more like not having the courage of your convictions and it's cali Jun 2013 #15
Or "shitbags" nt redqueen Jun 2013 #16
"liberal sockpuppet authoritarian shitbags" bunnies Jun 2013 #21
I suggest you write another post saying that. The WE crap makes no sense. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #83
Nonsense Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #126
LOL, 41 recs. Sure. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #134
Recs? Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #142
Here is a post for the "WE" crowd. Maybe it should be...... Logical Jun 2013 #143
? Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #144
Well, I am honored I am smart enough to not know what "a bad episode of mean girls" is. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #145
Yeah Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #146
Are you? Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #161
Yes, you are still gullible as hell. Let me know if Mean Girls cover this story. LOL!! Logical Jun 2013 #165
I myself agree with the OP. So I am royally part of we. graham4anything Jun 2013 #105
Bull. Pure politics. B2G Jun 2013 #3
Very interesting. A lot of it is based on rooting for a team. Quantess Jun 2013 #104
True, Ma'am The Magistrate Jun 2013 #5
It would appear sir, your principles are nothing more than affectations of the moment Dragonfli Jun 2013 #33
The Law Today, Sir, Differs From The Law As It Was Then The Magistrate Jun 2013 #34
But is the law always right or moral, Sir? n2doc Jun 2013 #35
The Question, Sir, Is Whether A Thing Was A Crime Under Law Or Not The Magistrate Jun 2013 #37
I see nothing in the OP about this, Sir. n2doc Jun 2013 #39
The more I read the rationalizations, the more I conclude Dreamer Tatum Jun 2013 #44
Speaking of rationalizations ... Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #98
On progressivism and rationality... ElboRuum Jun 2013 #110
The 4th Amendment and Article V are the law. Yes, they are always right. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #60
Statutes Adopted, Sir, Contrary To Your View Of These, However, Are Not Always Wrong The Magistrate Jun 2013 #64
Sir, the plain words of the 4th Amendment are the law. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #74
The first amendment is plain too, but it has limits and interpretations. The second does as well. stevenleser Jun 2013 #84
No Words In Law, Sir, Are Quite So Plain As You Seem To Imagine Them To Be The Magistrate Jun 2013 #86
unreasonable does not mean reasonable. And, prey tell, what does the #2 one mean? graham4anything Jun 2013 #106
I am glad the Mage has found an acolyte intellectually worthy of defending Dragonfli Jun 2013 #107
Surely you can understand why making a thing legal retroactively, then blocking Marr Jun 2013 #36
The Same Complaint, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #41
No, it cannot. Marr Jun 2013 #47
Part Of Bringing Suit, Sir, Is Demonstrating A Harm Done To You The Magistrate Jun 2013 #51
And "national security" has put standing in a catch 22. We can't win for losin'. Luminous Animal Jun 2013 #93
Awesome posts. Absolutely fantastic. And your point about showing HOW you've been harmed Number23 Jun 2013 #97
The 'harm done' is the violation of your privacy rights. Marr Jun 2013 #124
I Am Not Arguing Anything, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #130
I argued no such thing. I wish to GOD IN HEAVEN you would put me on ignore Number23 Jun 2013 #139
This is what, the third time you've asked ME to ignore YOU, instead of just doing it yourself. Marr Jun 2013 #147
You have decided to chase me around with the most asinine NON-points Number23 Jun 2013 #148
Uh, you jumped into an exchange I was having with the Magistrate, genius. Marr Jun 2013 #150
I posted a link to an ARTICLE to the Magistrate. I didn't even read your post but posted an article Number23 Jun 2013 #151
I'm sorry, but your behavior is just bizarre. Marr Jun 2013 #152
The man conjuring up arguments in his head so that he can argue with half the board Number23 Jun 2013 #153
I will respond to your posts every time I feel like doing so. Marr Jun 2013 #154
I thought you were "done?" Your behavior is so very telling Number23 Jun 2013 #155
I was. But you posted more insults. Marr Jun 2013 #156
So, sad. Really. Really sad this is the only way to get people to acknowledge you Number23 Jun 2013 #157
Haha, yeah-- isn't that something? Marr Jun 2013 #158
So sad. Bye now. You take good care of yourself. Bless your heart. Number23 Jun 2013 #159
I caught a trout. Marr Jun 2013 #160
They aren't blocking suits because no one can show they've been directly harmed. Marr Jun 2013 #121
That Is Part Of Standing, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #125
By that logic, there is no limit to acceptable mass surveillance. Marr Jun 2013 #127
That May Well Be, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #128
I grasp that what was reprehensible then is reprehensible now. Retroactive immunity Dragonfli Jun 2013 #38
The 4th Amendment has remained the same, Sir. The Constitution cannot be changed unless the AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #57
Has A Court Ruled The F.I.S.A. Un-Constitutional, Sir? The Magistrate Jun 2013 #61
You, sir, cannot provide one court opinion in which the Supreme Court held that a statute is AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #73
That, Sir, Is Flat Nonesense The Magistrate Jun 2013 #85
The nonsense is that you, sir, cannot provide one court opinion in which the Supreme Court so held. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #90
Can You Cite Constitutional Language Give The Court Authority To Rule A Law Un-Constitutional, Sir? The Magistrate Jun 2013 #91
Actually, you are showing your unawareness of Near v Minnesota in which the Supreme Court held AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #92
That Does Not Say What You Think It Says, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #95
The secret interpretations, you mean? MNBrewer Jun 2013 #122
Tou Are Aware The Text Was Altered, Sir? The Magistrate Jun 2013 #123
Oh, SNAP, Sir. +1 nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2013 #43
Is that an NSA talking point, Sir? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #52
What Do You, Think, Sir? Do You Suppose That Organization An Arm Of The Democratic Party? The Magistrate Jun 2013 #53
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #58
And The Last Of The 'Lefter Than Thou' Raggle-Tag Staggers Into View, Sir.... The Magistrate Jun 2013 #63
Translation: "You're STUPID!" woo me with science Jun 2013 #71
And out comes the Label-Maker TM* Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #99
Testimonial: Number23 Jun 2013 #102
LOL! Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #118
Well done. Now if we could only have an app to translate 3rd-Way bullshit into English in real time AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #75
A most elegant post, sir. calimary Jun 2013 #59
+++ Whisp Jun 2013 #72
by framing it as one side vs another you block discourse Monkie Jun 2013 #87
One wonders which side of the "political fight", Sir... Bonobo Jun 2013 #100
Perhaps, Sir, They Are Operating Under The Mistaken Impression Some Here Seem To Share The Magistrate Jun 2013 #108
i see that you chose not to address my question and Rep. Sanchez's statements. Monkie Jun 2013 #166
Your Question Was Answered Sir: You Just Do Not Find The Answer Useful.... The Magistrate Jun 2013 #168
lets continue this conversation when the republicans are in power next then, sir. Monkie Jun 2013 #170
who is 'we'? markiv Jun 2013 #6
The FISA court is OK with the release of it's ruling that the NSA violated the law think Jun 2013 #7
That's very useful, indeed. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #29
Wouldn't it be nice if our Senators could tell us when the NSA violates the law think Jun 2013 #30
Oh NO my young apprentice. sibelian Jun 2013 #8
What really bothers me are those here that defend what our government is doing to us and the rest of RC Jun 2013 #9
WE? Are you conjoined twins? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #11
sigh--- Atticus Jun 2013 #96
And here you are making petty, personal comments unrelated to the topic of the thread Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #140
sigh--- Atticus Jul 2013 #171
We are the milquetoasts, who get our rights trampled on. But we're so reasonable! reformist2 Jun 2013 #12
We are sensible woodchucks. morningfog Jun 2013 #13
Yesterday it was BOrG, today its woodchuck. bunnies Jun 2013 #19
The easiest way to think of it is propagandist or apologist. morningfog Jun 2013 #20
Well, that makes it easy. bunnies Jun 2013 #23
google "Chuckles the Sensible Woodchuck" frylock Jun 2013 #54
Oh, you know what it means, they just used different terminology before... ElboRuum Jun 2013 #112
Is anyone else getting tired of these Meta-type threads in GD? n/t demmiblue Jun 2013 #14
Yes. We are. bunnies Jun 2013 #18
No. ElboRuum Jun 2013 #117
Here is some reality for ya nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #17
When does the war with North Korea start? Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #56
Could you please post another picture of your crying kid? HangOnKids Jun 2013 #65
Awww Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #67
Awwwww I care what Nadin says here you not at all HangOnKids Jun 2013 #69
You don't care about what I have to say? Floyd_Gondolli Jun 2013 #70
We still don't know when the war on NK starts, however treestar Jun 2013 #81
I will be part of that "we"! Andy823 Jun 2013 #22
Just to highlight the part that *should* have people going "hmmmmm"... redqueen Jun 2013 #25
In 2010 Oregon had the largest midterm turnout since at least the 80's Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #27
I live in Washington state Andy823 Jun 2013 #31
What is my attitude, that people should get turn out up and elect Democrats? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #46
Lacking any means to compel people to vote, 2010 should have been a Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #49
Well then don't be divided over things that you claim not to favor anyway. TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #103
Right, let's end the lighting of hair on fire. pa28 Jun 2013 #24
I'm with your "we"! Just Saying Jun 2013 #26
perhaps not an advocate, but definately an apologist nt markiv Jun 2013 #28
Fortunately, virtual hairfires rarely escape... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #32
R#13 & K for this o.p. It sickens me that a few DUers LOOK FOR ENEMIES among OTHER DUers UTUSN Jun 2013 #40
This... zappaman Jun 2013 #42
By Monday of this week, you had concluded that Greenwald is a liar DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #45
With no actually examples of lying. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #48
But trying to explain direct vs. indirect access to the blue linker in chief bobduca Jun 2013 #119
fuck your "reality" and fuck your condescending bullshit.. frylock Jun 2013 #50
Thanks. Appreciate this post. byronius Jun 2013 #55
Claiming to advocate facts and reasoned discourse and almost JoeyT Jun 2013 #62
A Good Rule of Thumb: bvar22 Jun 2013 #66
"I am not, nor have I ever been, a reactionary screamer." Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #68
K&R. n/t FSogol Jun 2013 #76
"I am far left of center. " burnodo Jun 2013 #77
i´m slightly to the left of attilla the hun! Monkie Jun 2013 #88
So you are advocates of the NSA or Police State. Rex Jun 2013 #78
Yes, anyone who doesn't advocate character assassination is a hyperbolic babbler NoOneMan Jun 2013 #79
I agree treestar Jun 2013 #80
LOL. Cryptic shit for sure! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #82
Did NSA have anything to do with this? Catherine Vincent Jun 2013 #89
I'm reccing because of your line about how so many consider themselves instant experts at everything Number23 Jun 2013 #94
We are not amused. n/t ljm2002 Jun 2013 #101
The Secret Facts or those other ones? Agony Jun 2013 #111
I'll put $$ on the OP coming from DKos dragonfly301 Jun 2013 #113
She Has Been Here For Eleven Years, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #114
No not a sock, but I'm relatvely new dragonfly301 Jun 2013 #115
So cute. eom uppityperson Jun 2013 #120
Note No. 131 Below, Ma'am The Magistrate Jun 2013 #132
Screw you, you are a damn liar sir, attempting to smear me for pointing out your hypocrisy Dragonfli Jun 2013 #136
Thank You For The Laugh, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2013 #137
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #138
And 3-3 decided to leave it. Incredible. Wondering how"screw you, you are damn liar" is not hideable uppityperson Jun 2013 #149
Pitiful. Bobbie Jo Jun 2013 #162
I got a pm doubling down oN explaining the insulting language "but he is a...." uppityperson Jun 2013 #163
There is a "gang" Dynamic- that posters gang is known as "the boggers" Dragonfli Jun 2013 #131
thanks for the lowdown dragonfly301 Jun 2013 #133
No need to be sorry, I took my name Dragonfli Jun 2013 #135
Interesting there's not a single "fact" in this post. DirkGently Jun 2013 #116
Far left of the center of the Birch Society. I doubt you and your fellows are advocates TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #129
HUGE K & R !!! SidDithers Jun 2013 #141
Is Bernie Sanders popular in Canada, Sid? Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #167
Glad to Rec... CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #164
With your self righteous disdan, and dismissal of the majority here who are participating usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #169
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»We Are Not Advocates Of t...»Reply #169