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In reply to the discussion: Open mic nights at bar lead to lawsuit from BMI over music, ask for $121,000 [View all]HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)115. Most musicians that join bmi/ascap get *nothing*.
In 1996, even the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts got the licensing equivalent of a tap on the shoulder. That August, ASCAP notified the organizations that their camps would have to purchase licenses, costing $10,000 yearly in total, to continue to use the songs listed in the camps' songbooks. After quickly realizing it was committing public relations suicide, the organization backed down.
One of the biggest complaints about ASCAP from those who use it is that, for an organization that behaves in a quasi-governmental manner--demanding licenses, leveling penalties (by way of the court system, at least)--it has the transparency of the KGB. To many artists, ASCAP's royalty distribution scheme has little rhyme or reason beyond it being tilted in favor of known pop artists. As Robert Suggs, a professor at the University of Maryland School of Law specializing in copyright law, observes, "Very, very few musicians make their living off their ASCAP royalties."
You only get money from ASCAP when your song is sampled. If you're getting airplay on commercial radio, you'll probably be sampled, maybe quite a lot. If you're not getting airplay on commercial radio, the odds of never getting sampled is pretty high. If you are an independent artist, the odds of being on commercial radio tend toward zero.
"If you're included on a [PRO] survey, it's likely you'll get paid more than you should've," explains Paul Anthony, the CEO of Rumblefish, an independent music licensing company. "And if you're not, you get paid nothing. At all."
http://www2.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15510
One of the biggest complaints about ASCAP from those who use it is that, for an organization that behaves in a quasi-governmental manner--demanding licenses, leveling penalties (by way of the court system, at least)--it has the transparency of the KGB. To many artists, ASCAP's royalty distribution scheme has little rhyme or reason beyond it being tilted in favor of known pop artists. As Robert Suggs, a professor at the University of Maryland School of Law specializing in copyright law, observes, "Very, very few musicians make their living off their ASCAP royalties."
You only get money from ASCAP when your song is sampled. If you're getting airplay on commercial radio, you'll probably be sampled, maybe quite a lot. If you're not getting airplay on commercial radio, the odds of never getting sampled is pretty high. If you are an independent artist, the odds of being on commercial radio tend toward zero.
"If you're included on a [PRO] survey, it's likely you'll get paid more than you should've," explains Paul Anthony, the CEO of Rumblefish, an independent music licensing company. "And if you're not, you get paid nothing. At all."
http://www2.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=15510
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Open mic nights at bar lead to lawsuit from BMI over music, ask for $121,000 [View all]
The Straight Story
Feb 2013
OP
You do understand that BMI is a copyright agency and it does not "release" songs.
Walk away
Feb 2013
#126
First of all, not all composers are performers. They may only make money from their creations.
Walk away
Feb 2013
#171
In the late 70s, I worked at at Pizza Shop/Bar in Pgh. I was there the day....
Junkdrawer
Feb 2013
#5
You do realize that BMI is a not for profit company that represents song writers rights.
Walk away
Feb 2013
#128
I picture Mozart presenting an opera in a theater, amateur musicians singing it
JDPriestly
Feb 2013
#154
I think that suing bar owners for presenting a composer's music played by amateur
JDPriestly
Feb 2013
#180
not to mention that with karaoke, money has already been paid, both by the company that made
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#94
People want free stuff, even on the DU. It amazes me that people think BMI should not....
Logical
Feb 2013
#11
Really, on the radio, the TV and the Juke Box, which most saloon owners don't own but
Cleita
Feb 2013
#20
Most artist are never covered during open mic night, mostly A list artist hits.
Exultant Democracy
Feb 2013
#81
Why should someone get to play their music with no compensation? No different than someone using....
Logical
Feb 2013
#19
Because if someone uses your photo or graphic art in a book or a magazine you get paid for it.
Cleita
Feb 2013
#22
The band is being played to play the music. They play popular music. Thus they are making money....
Logical
Feb 2013
#36
Logical. Sometimes you show a pretty big lack of it and this is one of these times.
Cleita
Feb 2013
#40
LOL, you call your rambling 'logic'? I am subjects to billboard I don't want to see...
Logical
Feb 2013
#44
And some libraries LEND CDs which is fine. But you want a band to be able to play someones...
Logical
Feb 2013
#53
That explains a lot. You should have led with that and saved us both a lot of time. n-t
Logical
Feb 2013
#85
That's exactly what they want, Cleita. Their greed has blinded them to the inevitable end of
Egalitarian Thug
Feb 2013
#57
When it comes to BMI or MCI I do know, and you know from the content of your post
Cleita
Feb 2013
#50
The fact is they can't keep track of it at that street level, so they are keeping most of the
Cleita
Feb 2013
#71
is your catalog played by bar bands in 50-seat venues? or sung on open mic nights by joe schmoe
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#142
ASCAP (American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers) and BMI (Broadcast Music,
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#113
You can't play your own BMI registered music in locations that don't pay BMI...
ThatCoffeeLady
Apr 2015
#184
So, those of us who can sit down a play a tune we have heard. Should we play royalties
JDPriestly
Feb 2013
#155
what's the name of your band. I'll look for your stuff. If you don't want to post it please
KittyWampus
Feb 2013
#23
Most people don't come to DU for the music so I can understand why your ad didn't get a
Cleita
Feb 2013
#27
amateurs performing popular songs in taverns have never been subject to fees from song-publishing
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#60
I'm not against musicians being paid, only when they keep getting paid over and over
Cleita
Feb 2013
#35
It's not about Madonna & the Stones. It's about the .99999% who you never heard of.
graham4anything
Feb 2013
#51
So how does making a rural bar pay a license for nothing in exchange help those musicians?
Cleita
Feb 2013
#54
Nothing in exchange? They make $$$ selling food and drinks at their place
graham4anything
Feb 2013
#62
The idea of owning a bar is to make money, but it's a Main Street type of operation,
Cleita
Feb 2013
#67
so funny. the musicians don't get but a fraction of the price. it's mostly overhead to the money
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#61
as an example-Do you give away your services for free in whatever job you do or have done?
graham4anything
Feb 2013
#78
the majority of song royalties go to the moneymen, not the writers. and it's the moneymen pushing
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#84
I myself have asked at places if royalties are paid. And made a call. Because fair is fair.
graham4anything
Feb 2013
#97
yeah, the music mafia even tried to extort the girl scout songbook. because, you know, the
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#122
I was on a first-name basis with around 20 live-music club owners in SF in the 1990s.
Robb
Feb 2013
#99
I hate those people. They suck money out of bar owners for music that is even played on the
Cleita
Feb 2013
#13
This has been going on since the sixties and seventies when I was a bartender and
Cleita
Feb 2013
#30
How soon before individuals are hit with a lawsuit for singing while walking down the street,
MadHound
Feb 2013
#15
Henry Robbins is an idiot. I have several friends who own nightclubs & even -I- knew you have to pay
KittyWampus
Feb 2013
#21
Some places operate as neighborhood bars and after you pay the help, other licenses
Cleita
Feb 2013
#32
why should you have to pay for the beer? it's gone through the distributor...hasn't it made enough?
spanone
Feb 2013
#55
the songwriters don't get but a fraction of the price anytime their song is performed, even in
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#63
Thank you. Most people who criticize BMI have yet to create anything of artistic value
wtmusic
Feb 2013
#69
there's not money in it mainly because of the dominance of corporations and organizations like
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#144
maybe 'publishing industry' isn't the right term; i amend it to 'corporations like time-warner'.
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#175
It's still asinine. Open mic nites are like amateur hour contests, without prizes.
MADem
Feb 2013
#90
nope, they sue & threaten the bar owners, not the musicians. deeper pockets and more to lose.
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#119
the bar owner hires the musicians and controls the door charge, so not sure how the band would
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#132
i don't know what kind of bands you're talking about, but most bar bands around here (and there
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#149
so with karaoke & juke boxes you pay twice: once for the 'records/tape/digital recordings,' +
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#148
$2,600.00 for a year to play anyone's songs period is actually not very much.
Lint Head
Feb 2013
#104
most get *nothing*. And publishers take the lion's share. So the claim that taking dinky little
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#118
"Taking dinky little music venues to court," or threatening them with such, is exactly what they're
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#124
you didn't debunk anything. & if a venue with 15 audience members & no liquor ain't 'dinky,'
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#131
I made no claims about *you*. I said most get nothing, and that publishers and money men take
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#139
non-profit is not synonymous with 'good'. it's actually not even synonymous with 'non-profit'.
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#178
actually, it's the opposite. make it impossible for local venues to host live music and musicians
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#151
take a look at the place on google maps. it's a low-rent dive across the street from a cornfield.
HiPointDem
Feb 2013
#153