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jmg257

(11,996 posts)
12. Yep - and it isn't all that tough. In 1 page or less...
Sat Jan 12, 2013, 09:04 PM
Jan 2013

Last edited Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:11 AM - Edit history (1)

The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to secure the Militias.

Why? Our freedoms depend on it; the freedom of the States, and the existence of the Union depend on it.

US Constitution, Article 1 Section 8; The VERY VITAL Role of the Militias in securing our liberties:
"To provide for calling forth the Militia {of the several States} to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions"

Article 4 Section 4
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence".

Preamble:
in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty


The newly assigned powers of Congress, over the existing Miltiias of the Several States:
Article 1 Section 8
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Powers taken fron the States, that if usurped, or ignored, could be exploited by tyrants.

In Congress 1789...
Mr Gerry: Now, I am apprehensive, sir, that this {religious exemtion} clause would give an opportunity to the people in power to destroy the constitution itself. They can declare who are those religiously scrupulous, and prevent them from bearing arms.
What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty
. Now, it must be evident, that, under this provision, together with their other powers, Congress could take such measures with respect to a militia, as to make a standing army necessary. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."


Mr. Scott: objected to the clause in the sixth amendment, "No person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms." He observed that if this becomes part of the constitution, such persons can neither be called upon for their services, nor can an equivalent be demanded; it is also attended with still further difficulties, for a militia can never be depended upon. This would lead to the violation of another article in the constitution, which secures to the people the right of keeping arms, and in this case recourse must be had to a standing army.

The 2nd secured the Militias, it prevents them from being "destroyed".
1) it declares the Militias ARE NECESSARY.
2) it declares they must be well-regulated - well armed and well trained.
3) it prevents the governments from disarming them
It keeps the Congress from ignoring, or disarming or otherwise leaving the Militias ineffective.

Mr. Gerry: objected to the first part of the clause, on account of the uncertainty with which it is expressed. A well regulated militia being the best security of a free State, admitted an idea that a standing army was a secondary one. It ought to read, "a well regulated militia, trained to arms;" in which case it would become the duty of the Government to provide this security, and furnish a greater certainty of its being done.


The 2nd does not secure the right to bear arms so the people can stage a revolt, or fight against a usurper, or even provide for their own defense (though that is a 'bonus'). It secures their right and duty to serve in an efficient Militia, as the best way to avoid that bane of liberty - a large standing army. THAT is the security against tyranny the 2nd offers.


On EDIT: Glanced at link...aahhh - slave control - makes sense as to the importance of the insurrection purpose, along with surpressing white insurrections like the recent Shay's Rebellion...BUT you can NOT ignore the expanded and extremely vital role the Militias were to fill in the new Republic, already articulated in the Constitution. The Militias weren't some new entity suddenly put in place just to guard against slave uprisings and so deserving of some extra attention. They existed, and had for decades, were increased in importance under the Articles, and they were needed to specifically secure all our freedoms.

Anyway - have to check it out!

I disagree with the idea that the 2A is to protect you against the government. CJCRANE Jan 2013 #1
Not specifically, rather a deterrence against tyranny of all sorts. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #2
Free from what? Free from foreign invaders. CJCRANE Jan 2013 #3
The Founders pipoman Jan 2013 #9
It's a tricky one though... CJCRANE Jan 2013 #13
The hard part of any good insurection pipoman Jan 2013 #15
the means to fight off tyranny ThomThom Jan 2013 #18
We agree.. pipoman Jan 2013 #19
You make sense there, your logic wins. freshwest Jan 2013 #5
It does, but not in the way the NRA-lovers think jeff47 Jan 2013 #14
Ah, I see. That makes sense. CJCRANE Jan 2013 #16
The answer to that is: Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #4
Have you read the disertation I linked to? 99Forever Jan 2013 #6
I've read extensively on colonial and early US history and also English and British history. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #10
I'm sorry... 99Forever Jan 2013 #20
Enough to tell that he ignores or isn't aware of a substantial amount of the historical context Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #31
Not to mention VT's constitution (which predates our own) 1777 X_Digger Jan 2013 #33
The Senate, too Recursion Jan 2013 #7
If I had a name like that, I'd change it. Fast. Warpy Jan 2013 #8
"Professor Bogus"? Is that his real name? nt bananas Jan 2013 #11
LOL! That's what I was thinking, too. Turborama Jan 2013 #17
Yes, that... 99Forever Jan 2013 #21
Yep - and it isn't all that tough. In 1 page or less... jmg257 Jan 2013 #12
"Glanced at link.." 99Forever Jan 2013 #22
I noted that..reading it now and so far agrees wonderfully.. jmg257 Jan 2013 #24
BTW..interesting paper..thanks for posting it! nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #26
yep H2O Man Jan 2013 #23
Bogus's theories have been soundly debunked- by liberal scholars like Laurence Tribe.. X_Digger Jan 2013 #25
He definitely blows it on the whole 'definition of the Militia' stuff jmg257 Jan 2013 #29
The professor makes a pretty good case Still Sensible Jan 2013 #27
i listened to Thom Hartmann JanT Jan 2013 #28
Interesting argument, but it ignores the Indian Wars that were going in 1780s and '90s FarCenter Jan 2013 #30
His argument about the weakness of the English right to arms is flawed. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #32
Earlier there was a requirement to bear arms, depending on one's social station. FarCenter Jan 2013 #34
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