General Discussion

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)

37. They are not worthless to those of us who are retired or baby

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:30 AM

Dec 2012

boomers. We paid the bulk of the payroll, Social Security and Medicare taxes that are in the trust fund. We rely on our benefits that come out of the current Social Security taxes and the Trust Fund just to stay alive.

The US government is not permitted to renege on its obligations. It has to pay all its debts. That is in the Constitution.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

14th Amendment, section 4

The phrase "validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned." is defined by the language, "including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion" is inclusive. All debts of the US are included. The Congress is obliged by the Constitution to pay all debts including those to the Social Security Trust Fund as I read that language.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

47 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"Seventy percent of the federal budget goes to individual assistance programs" [View all] Nikia Dec 2012 OP

Here's a webpage that says something else Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #1

Mandatory spending and interest on the debt is shown there at total 69%. Loudly Dec 2012 #3

How does mandatory spending equate to individual spending? liberal N proud Dec 2012 #4

Mandatory spending is so-called "entitlement programs." Loudly Dec 2012 #5

Social Security is NOT an entitlement! liberal N proud Dec 2012 #14

Sure it is. What do you mean? Even the Social Security Administration calls it that: Loudly Dec 2012 #19

Wat he means is that Social Security is not a welfare program and is not part of the federal budget PSPS Dec 2012 #21

Excess FICA collections available to borrow from the Trust Fund Loudly Dec 2012 #24

Actually, Social Security and Medicare are paid for out of JDPriestly Dec 2012 #32

Not true, about 42% of Medicare spending comes from general revenue... PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #41

why do you lump interest on the debt (6%) in there? SS & Medicare are the bulk of spending HiPointDem Dec 2012 #16

$3 trillion of federal debt is owed to the Social Security Trust Fund. Loudly Dec 2012 #22

You're double counting. The interest owed to the TF so far is already *in* the TF. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #23

When it accrues to the trust fund it becomes added to the deficit. Loudly Dec 2012 #25

SS is running surpluses. $69 Billion in 2011. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #26

That's pretty illusory though. Loudly Dec 2012 #28

As I recall, that is Reaganomics. That was a Reagan administration JDPriestly Dec 2012 #36

Illusory? How so? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #38

Exactly. The payroll tax cut was ultimately made up for by borrowing. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #43

Plus all the payroll or Social Security and Medicare JDPriestly Dec 2012 #35

I think it's not quite like that. Say there's $1000 in the TF, representing a debt the gov't HiPointDem Dec 2012 #39

My generation was overtaxes because the baby boomers JDPriestly Dec 2012 #40

yes, i agree. just saying that the long-term effect of the tax holiday isn't so clear. there's no HiPointDem Dec 2012 #47

hmmm... wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #20

No. Let's look at some of the things that are not payments to individuals BlueStreak Dec 2012 #29

Should social security and medicare be considered part of the Federal Budget? Nikia Dec 2012 #8

Medicare is certainly part of the federal budget, PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #10

That chart includes Social Security as part of the budget. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #31

When excess FICA and self-employment collections were lent to the general fund Loudly Dec 2012 #33

FY12 Federal Budget Spending Estimates for Fiscal Years 2011 - 2016 liberal N proud Dec 2012 #2

So what? "For the people" and all that. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #6

Exactly. Why wouldn't it be 100% of the government costs going to the benefit of Americans? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #30

SS/Medicare are individual assistance. banned from Kos Dec 2012 #7

If he is including these as Federal budget, it is inconsistent to then say Nikia Dec 2012 #9

The RW media assholes are usually pretty careful to say that the 47% Mariana Dec 2012 #15

Of course they pay Federal Income Tax. tsuki Dec 2012 #27

They are not worthless to those of us who are retired or baby JDPriestly Dec 2012 #37

You might want to take a look at Flemming v. Nestor. Mariana Dec 2012 #42

The law about the Trust Fund changed in the 1980s. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #45

I certainly hope so, but for now, the 1960 decision stands. Mariana Dec 2012 #46

good catch. we should use their tactics and say that workers at all levels fund half the budget. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #17

Merely for those who might be interested (and willing to read a lot of tables)... 2naSalit Dec 2012 #11

it's wrong. get a bunch of others together & send a letter of complaint with the correct data. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #12

Harper's index had an interesting statistic Democrats_win Dec 2012 #13

or maybe poverty has been defined down. some evidence for that, too. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18

His ass nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #34

Ironic that 70% of what he says is horse shit. L0oniX Dec 2012 #44