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JHB

(37,160 posts)
24. Debate about the best rates is fine, that's why I posted this
Thu Aug 2, 2012, 07:10 AM
Aug 2012

The current range of debate is so stilted and ahistoric that the Republicans talk as if simply letting the Bush tax cuts expire is a step on the Long March to Stalinism. In that situation, it is useful to remind people what our tax structure looked like when there were actual Stalinist nations in the world, especially since that period is generally remembered here as economic good times for ordinary people.

For instance, we currently have six tax brackets, the Ryan plan wants to collapse it to two, like we had from 1988 to 1990 except with even lower rates (10%/25% brackets under Ryan compared to 15%/28% under G.H.W. Bush). The earlier experiment was unsustainable, but the radicals on the Republican side crucified Bush for not sticking to his "read my lips, no new taxes" line in the face of reality. Even on the Democratic side, $250K was treated as a stark dividing line (the whole "is $250K rich?" debate). So it has value to note that within living memory we used to have some 24 brackets, with 16 of them affecting incomes over the equivalent of $250K.

I'm also inclined to use the 50's-era rates as a starting point, no matter how unreasonable they may be, simply because it allows us to talk towards reasonable. The other side has staked out a far more radical position and argues that any course other than the one they prescribe amounts to the end of life as we know it and the transformation of the nation into the socialist hellhole of their fevered imaginations.

I'm curious, though: how long do you think America has before turning into a 3rd world country if it stays on its present course? Or if a Ryan-type plan were enacted?

It won't matter to the entrenched Republicans, and even some moderates jpljr77 Aug 2012 #1
We got to push this the same way Reagan pushed it in 1984 against Mondale. WI_DEM Aug 2012 #2
"The Plan Would Have To" DallasNE Aug 2012 #3
He hasn't spelled it out, but he's talked a lot about "closing loopholes" starroute Aug 2012 #4
Just a reminder of what the past looked like (adjusted for inflation): JHB Aug 2012 #5
those rates, if enacted today, would turn America into a 3rd world country within 5 to 10 years stockholmer Aug 2012 #23
Debate about the best rates is fine, that's why I posted this JHB Aug 2012 #24
I think that the US can keep on racking up massive debt, and thus keep the game going for at least stockholmer Aug 2012 #25
+1, define what rMoney would do by what he did in the past if he doesn't want to spell it out uponit7771 Aug 2012 #11
Krugman Is Saying Much The Same Thing i Say DallasNE Aug 2012 #14
I think Krugman is being far too optimistic starroute Aug 2012 #17
Let me guess who the other 5% are Bucky Aug 2012 #6
rMoney's plan is to raise taxes on the "job creators" -- the consumers whose purchases SDjack Aug 2012 #7
K&R!! n/t hue Aug 2012 #8
I was ready to applaud this hfojvt Aug 2012 #9
This is the problem with accountants and mathematicians JDPriestly Aug 2012 #12
what a terrible thing it is to look at facts, eh? hfojvt Aug 2012 #18
A higher standard deduction would be great, but it won't happen. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #20
well then by all means, we MUST keep all those tax breaks for the rich hfojvt Aug 2012 #21
You are forgetting the child care deduction, the student loan interest deduction. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #26
actually no I am not hfojvt Aug 2012 #27
Mitt's Goose is Cooked bucolic_frolic Aug 2012 #10
Why yes this is a major issue! Quantess Aug 2012 #13
And their (Repubs) response will be.......... mrmpa Aug 2012 #15
But, But ... I Thought Republicans Were Anti Tax Increases - Say It Ain't So Mitt! cantbeserious Aug 2012 #16
Might have to wait a few days to break this news to conservatives. Kalidurga Aug 2012 #19
So, Republicans are LYING about taxes... Berlum Aug 2012 #22
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