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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 640

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As I said above

"So the autopsy refutes that specific allegation (not necessarily his whole account)."

I haven't concluded one way or the other whether the officer murdered Brown or acted in self defense.

For sure.

He could have been coming at the officer
Or going down on his knees to surrender as some have suggested.
Or starting to falter due to loss of blood.
Or it could be he was on his way down after the first crippling head shot and the officer fired again.

There might be other alternatives to that too.

The guy who did the autopsy couldn't conclude everything and I haven't been able to either.

Yep, I'm sure that's why the blank diagram is the way it is.

1. Note the wounds when the victim is lying on their back and
2. Note the wounds when the victim is lying on their belly

And they'd make sure they rotate the hands when the body gets flipped for the second view.

I'm open to arguments or suggestions where I may be missing something. But in trying to be objective, I simply cannot definitely conclude from those diagrams if his hands were up or not. If someone can fill me in on what I'm not seeing, please do.

Quotes from that video

0:26 "The next thing I know he coming back towards the police"
0:53 "Dude started running ... coming toward the police"

IF that audio is legit, that's a problem in terms of conflicting eyewitness testimony.

Found the interview where Dorian Johnson incorrectly states Brown was

shot in the back:


at the 9 minute mark

So the autopsy refutes that specific allegation (not necessarily his whole account).

Also notable from that interview is:
2:40 "Mike's hands were filled with cigarillos. His hands were not free. His hands were filled"
Later on in the interview, at 5:11, during the altercation at the cruiser, Dorian says Mike passed the cigarillos ("hold these") he had to Dorian to free Mike's hands.

That's important because some accounts suggest the officer stopped originally because of the jaywalking but the officer figured out not long afterwards that these two may have been involved with the recent robbery of cigars. From Dorian's account, it's not unreasonable to accept the notion that the cigarillos were plainly visible.

at 7:11 (after the shot was fired) "The officer let go. And that's how we were both able to run at the same time. It was almost like the officer didn't mean to shoot him ..."

at 8:10 "I could tell the officer was in shock because it took him at least 2 or 3 minutes to get out of the car. It was almost like he had to make a judgement call about what he'd just done" (maybe the officer was making a radio call... I'm not sure and 2-3 minutes seems to be over estimated)

I'm not so sure about that:

Where I'm having a problem with that is the diagram.

It shows his arms at his side and you can see all the entrance wounds with his arms in that position. That suggests to me that his arms did not HAVE to be in the hands up position for those wounds to occur.

Sorry to be a pain in the butt here. If the officer murdered Mike Brown, I'd like him to receive the maximum sentence for the injustice. But I have to be absolutely sure before I'll howl for that.

My recollection was some of the eyewitness versions against the officer generally

implied that Brown was fleeing with the officer in pursuit when Brown was shot in the back and then turned to face the officer to surrender. I'd have to check their words more carefully before I can be absolutely sure of that.

Dorian Johnson did feel that Brown was wounded first by the gunshot in the car.

The no gun shot residue on his head wounds with Brown's cap found a good distance from his body goes somewhat against my impression of Dorian Johnson's account suggesting the officer was standing over Brown when he fired the fatal shots. Not totally discounting it but it gives me some pause.

Maybe you and I are looking after different pictures

In the one above, the wound on his hand shows a wound on the bone leading to his thumb - which is not precisely the palm of his hand. It does appear to be on the inner/palm side of the hand.

It's not a round entrance wound - it's a line along much of the bone below the thumb - which opens it to the possibility that the angle of the bone when it was struck by the bullet was roughly pointing towards the gun - not in a "classic" hands up position.

It also could be that the bone shattered in a hands up position when struck and did that damage - though if I had to guess, that seems less likely but it's pretty tough to be absolutely sure one way or the other from that diagram. I certainly wouldn't want to try to convict anyone solely on the basis of that diagram.

There are a couple of accounts making that claim

How reliable they are, I'm not sure. Both appear to have been published by right wingers and therefore, my suspicion radar is beeping rather loudly.

BUT, this has to be about beyond reasonable doubt. Because those accounts haven't been discounted beyond reasonable doubt, I cannot dismiss them entirely yet.
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