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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 644

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That's a good point. Made me think of something.

I just rotated my hands at my desk. I'd guess I can rotate my palms more than 270 degrees. My forearm also significantly rotates - obviously not as much.

In light of that, I'd like to present something that may make Dorian Johnson's "shot in the back" more plausible (that I maybe wrongly criticized above). Although Mike wasn't shot in the back, he could have been running with his back to the cop when his forearm took a bullet and that wound was what caused him to stop running. Because the wound as documented in that forearm could occur in that place when one has their back to a shooter. And I think that would be a more natural orientation of the forearm if one were running.

So maybe all Johnson got wrong with the "shot in the back" term was more accurately, Mike was "shot in the forearm" while running away with his back to the cop.

The thumb wound is arguably possible to have occurred that way as well but it seems more like a longer graze.

From that, the other point I thought of is Mike was allegedly first wounded while at the window of the cruiser. The head shots were catastrophic so it's unlikely to be them. The hand wound had no GSR so it's unlikely to be that. The forearm as per the above is most likely to be the wound that stopped him from running away. Johnson said Mike was wounded on the right side when he was by the car. The two wounds in his right chest are secondary. That leaves one of the two entrance wounds in his upper right arm as the one inflicted while he was at the cruiser and maybe a secondary wound to his chest there. Just an fyi while we try to figure this autopsy out.

Some years ago, a cop pulled me over.

They accused me of:
1. Speeding 75mph on a 60mph highway
2. Being impaired
3. There was a warrant out for my arrest

Here's the problem they had with that:
1. My car transmission had partially failed the day before. The car was physically incapable of exceeding 50mph because it couldn't get past 2nd gear
2. I hadn't had anything to drink in a month. I later blew 0.000000000 on their super duper breathalyzer at the station
3. There's never been a warrant nor have I ever been legitimately suspected by the police of any crime in my lifetime.

I started out polite and compliant with the officer though I denied their allegations.

Since I was being arrested, I turned to my friend to hand him my bank card and give him the phone number of my lawyer so I could get bailed out.

The officer reached in the open window of my car and tried to physically drag me out through the window. Big mistake for that cop. But only to point out that I can relate to Mike grappling with a cop through the window of a car. I've had a few flashbacks. I subdued the cop by twisting their arm, rolled up the window on their arm and started my engine. I told that cop we were going to a police station and now he had a choice which way they were going to arrive at that station: in a civil manner or wiped off on a telephone post. They chose to go to the police station in a civilized manner.

At the police station, when I went to charge them for assault, they broke down into tears and confessed that my bogus speeding ticket was just them trying to meet a "quota" that had been assigned to them.

I had another run in with six of them doing a Rodney King to a guy and I shut that down by telling them my friend was filming them from down the street (which was BS as I hadn't connected with my friend yet).

So I can't blindly give an officer the benefit of the doubt. Most of the police around me are excellent, good people. I always start out with them nicely and respectfully, etc. And I'd help any cop in a pickle in a second and I have before. But rest assured that I'm not oblivious to the notion that there are a few bad cops out there. And Darren Wilson just might be one of those bad cops.

I remain suspicious of the officer using excessive force

An unarmed man has been shot dead. That continues to smell bad to me.

But I'd like proof beyond reasonable doubt one way or the other. That's justice and what this situation deserves. Whether we get it, remains to be seen. It's not always easy to get - it sometimes has to be worked for.

Sometimes, there are cases where we simply can't figure it out to that degree of certainty. Sometimes, there are cases where we think we've got it figured out and later, it turns out we were wrong. Hopefully, that doesn't happen here.

In the interim, playing devil's advocate to scrutinize both sides of the evidence isn't a bad exercise because I think it moves us closer to the indisputable truth of what really happened.

I'm not out to merely or blindly defend the officer. Truly, I'm not. If he's guilty, I hope they hammer him.

As I said above

"So the autopsy refutes that specific allegation (not necessarily his whole account)."

I haven't concluded one way or the other whether the officer murdered Brown or acted in self defense.

For sure.

He could have been coming at the officer
Or going down on his knees to surrender as some have suggested.
Or starting to falter due to loss of blood.
Or it could be he was on his way down after the first crippling head shot and the officer fired again.

There might be other alternatives to that too.

The guy who did the autopsy couldn't conclude everything and I haven't been able to either.

Yep, I'm sure that's why the blank diagram is the way it is.

1. Note the wounds when the victim is lying on their back and
2. Note the wounds when the victim is lying on their belly

And they'd make sure they rotate the hands when the body gets flipped for the second view.

I'm open to arguments or suggestions where I may be missing something. But in trying to be objective, I simply cannot definitely conclude from those diagrams if his hands were up or not. If someone can fill me in on what I'm not seeing, please do.

Quotes from that video

0:26 "The next thing I know he coming back towards the police"
0:53 "Dude started running ... coming toward the police"

IF that audio is legit, that's a problem in terms of conflicting eyewitness testimony.

Found the interview where Dorian Johnson incorrectly states Brown was

shot in the back:


at the 9 minute mark

So the autopsy refutes that specific allegation (not necessarily his whole account).

Also notable from that interview is:
2:40 "Mike's hands were filled with cigarillos. His hands were not free. His hands were filled"
Later on in the interview, at 5:11, during the altercation at the cruiser, Dorian says Mike passed the cigarillos ("hold these") he had to Dorian to free Mike's hands.

That's important because some accounts suggest the officer stopped originally because of the jaywalking but the officer figured out not long afterwards that these two may have been involved with the recent robbery of cigars. From Dorian's account, it's not unreasonable to accept the notion that the cigarillos were plainly visible.

at 7:11 (after the shot was fired) "The officer let go. And that's how we were both able to run at the same time. It was almost like the officer didn't mean to shoot him ..."

at 8:10 "I could tell the officer was in shock because it took him at least 2 or 3 minutes to get out of the car. It was almost like he had to make a judgement call about what he'd just done" (maybe the officer was making a radio call... I'm not sure and 2-3 minutes seems to be over estimated)

I'm not so sure about that:

Where I'm having a problem with that is the diagram.

It shows his arms at his side and you can see all the entrance wounds with his arms in that position. That suggests to me that his arms did not HAVE to be in the hands up position for those wounds to occur.

Sorry to be a pain in the butt here. If the officer murdered Mike Brown, I'd like him to receive the maximum sentence for the injustice. But I have to be absolutely sure before I'll howl for that.
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