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Member since: Thu Dec 30, 2004, 02:05 PM
Number of posts: 12,667

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Question: is there any evidence that the Iraqi army did not 'evaporate', but instead joined forces

with the Sunni insurgents?

"Me against my brothers,...

me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world"

انا على أخوي وأنا وأخوي على ابن عمي وأنا وابن عمي على الغريب""

Got it?

This is why its a FOOL'S ERRAND to involve ourselves further in Iraq.

Be it one troop, bomb, or drone.

Unless, of course, your goal is to sell arms at great cost to the distressed American public, and to steal other countries oil.

At least, that's how I see it!

EDIT: Fixed Title!

Guess What? USA Funded ISIS From the Start (Can we PLEASE GTFO now?):

“ISIS (which ISIL is also referred to as) was able to infiltrate Iraqi government ministries and has the support of members of Saddam Hussein's Baath party, the Islamic Front (originally formed in 2004 as a resistance group to the U.S. occupation) and other Sunni groups,” Emran El-Badawi, director of the Arabic program at the University of Houston, said in an email.

The relationship between ISIL — an Al-Qaeda breakaway group — and other Sunni groups goes back to the beginning of the Iraq war. In the 2005 surge in Iraq, local tribes with U.S. funding built a coalition (known as the “Sunni Awakening Movement” or “Sons of Iraq”) that began combatting Al-Qaeda and other extreme groups to restore security and calm sectarianism. The program met with some success.

"These 90,000 ‘Sons of Iraq’ made a significant contribution to the reported 90% drop in sectarian violence in 2007-2008," said an op-ed co-written by Derek Harvey, a former senior intelligence official, and Michael Pregent, a former U.S. Army officer and onetime senior intelligence analyst.

But all that changed after U.S. forces withdrew and Maliki refused to integrate the Sunni tribes into the government. Off the payroll and pushed aside, the Sunnis were at a disadvantage and felt abandoned — while the Shias had full control of Baghdad and the south, and the Kurds had control of much of the north.


More blowback from the brainiacs determining US foreign policy. Meantime, the war profits and oil money keep going to the well connected.

It's not about anything noble. Let's leave before we create another 9-11. At least, that's my view.

MAP: The Sunni - Shia Divide

The Sunni-Shia divide

The story of Islam's division between Sunni and Shia started with the Prophet Mohammed's death in 632.

There was a power struggle over who would succeed him in ruling the Islamic Caliphate, with most Muslims wanting to elect the next leader but some arguing that power should go by divine birthright to Mohammed's son-in-law, Ali.

That pro-Ali faction was known as the "Partisans of Ali," or "Shi'atu Ali" in Arabic, hence "Shia."

Ali's eventual ascension to the throne sparked a civil war, which he and his partisans lost.

The Shia held on to the idea that Ali was the rightful successor, and grew into an entirely separate branch of Islam.

Today about 10 to 15 percent of Muslims worldwide are Shia — they are the majority group in Iran and Iraq only — while most Muslims are Sunni.

"Sunni" roughly means "tradition."

Today, that religious division is again a political one as well: it's a struggle for regional influence between Shia political powers, led by Iran, versus Sunni political powers, led by Saudi Arabia.

This struggle looks an awful lot like a regional cold war, with proxy battles in Syria and elsewhere.


This map shows how connected the wars in Syria & Iraq have become


Basically, the Fertile Crescent. Welcome to Babylon.

Think you're gonna make a difference with air strikes?

It's past time we let Big Oil play in the sandbox at our expense.

POLL: Plurality Against US Air Strikes / Majority Against Current Plan of Action

NBC: Not Worth It: Huge Majority Regret Iraq War, Exclusive Poll Shows

A divided nation finally agrees on something overwhelmingly: the war in Iraq was simply not worth fighting.

Seventy-one percent of Americans now say that the war in Iraq “wasn’t worth it,” a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal/Annenberg poll shows, with skepticism about the lengthy war effort up substantially even in the last 18 months.

Just 22 percent now believe the 2003 war effort was worthwhile.

In a January 2013 NBC/Wall Street Journal poll asking the same question, 59 percent of Americans said the war wasn’t worth it, versus 35 percent who said the opposite.

Half of respondents also said that the United States does not have a responsibility to help the Iraqi government as the country descends into sectarian violence, while 43 percent said that America should intervene.

Americans are even more pessimistic about Iraq – where insurgent groups now threaten to overpower the government – than about the war in Afghanistan. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll earlier this month showed that 27 percent of respondents said the Afghan conflict was worth it, versus 65 percent who disagreed. Negativity about Iraq appears to rival that of the Vietnam War; three Gallup polls conducted from 1999-2000 found that about 7 in 10 Americans believe that 1970s war was a “mistake.”



1) We can not end the 1400 year old Sunni/Shia conflict

2) We are creating enemies, not making Ameirca safer

3) It will kill us in 2014

4) The majority is against it, and we are a democracy..... right?

WaPo: Syrian aircraft bomb Sunni militant targets inside Iraq

Syrian government aircraft bombed Sunni militant targets inside Iraq on Tuesday, further broadening the Middle Eastern crisis a day after Israeli warplanes and rockets struck targets inside Syria.

Iraqi state media initially reported that the attacks near Iraq’s western border with Syria were carried out by U.S. drones, a claim that was quickly and forcefully denied by the Pentagon.

Separately, the Pentagon said that 90 additional U.S. troops arrived in Iraq, part of up to 300 military advisers whom President Obama said last week he would deploy there to assess the situation before taking any further U.S. military action. A statement said that U.S. aircraft are now flying 30 to 35 manned and unmanned daily surveillance flights over Iraq.

The main U.S. effort Tuesday was on the diplomatic front, as Secretary of State John F. Kerry traveled to Irbil, the Kurdish regional capital, to urge leaders there to remain part of Iraq. As they met, fighters from local Sunni tribes, apparently working with militant fighters from the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), wrested control of at least part of Iraq’s largest oil refinery from government troops.


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