Arrested For Trespassing At His OWN HOUSE! - Audit the Audit

[ItsjustMe]

[Oopsie Daisy]

1. He escalated the situation himself. It's his own fault.

[Quixote1818]

5. Not even close. Did you not listen to the lawyer narrating the video?

The officers escalated by ripping his drivers license out of his hand and throwing him to the ground for no reason.

[Oopsie Daisy]

8. He was hostile and aggressive from the beginning. He brought it on himself.

He should have watched that Chris Rock video about what not to do when pulled over by the police.

[Wonder Why]

11. That doesn't justify the clear violation of the law as pointed out by the narrator. Nor does it

justify their lying about the wording on the front door which clearly states that the basement is off bounds but says absolutely nothing about foreclosure.

[Oopsie Daisy]

23. Irrelevant. My comment was only about his hostile and aggressive behavior *

* that unnecessarily escalated a situation that could have been handled differently. He brought it all on himself.

[Wonder Why]

32. He is an elderly untrained civilian on his own property. The police should be taught to

keep from escalating things. They did not. They lied about a foreclosure sign. They obviously didn't even pay attention to what the sign said. They used a common No Trespassing sign as an indication even when he said he had put up the sign. They did not even take into account the couple's ages. No excuse for their actions.

He was a victim. You are blaming the victim for not being nice.

[Oopsie Daisy]

34. No, they did not LIE about a foreclosure sign.

No, I'm not blaming the man (not victim) for "not being nice". He's old enough to know that he has an obligation to identify himself when when the police are investigating a situation. He's also old enough to know (and has watched enough videos) that he asked "am I under arrest?" ... clearly he knew where this was headed. He was not a feeble old man... he was quite mentally capable and alert. Stop using his "age" as an excuse for his actions. He did it on purpose. He was told that he's being detained and that he's not free to leave... but he continued to press his luck and go down that dangerous path.

[ret5hd]

21. oh please. as if politeness works.

see reply 1

[Oopsie Daisy]

22. He started off at a 10. He set the tone for the entire encounter.

He brought it all on himself.

[ret5hd]

25. was his attitude illegal?

[Oopsie Daisy]

26. He's required to cooperate and obey lawful instructions. He's required to remain. He's required to ID himself.

His hostile and aggressive and threatening and peace-disturbing "attitude" was, very likely, illegal. His behavior went beyond simply being snarky or impolite or being "sassy" (as many in this thread have insinuated, trying to downplay his hostility as though he were simply being "disrespectful" or "impertinent'').

[multigraincracker]

29. Listen to a law professor and a cop

Explain why you should never speak to the cops, even if you have done nothing.

See #28.

[Oopsie Daisy]

30. Oh brother. This video clearly illustrates why one should never be aggressive and hostile to cops *

* yes... "even if you have done nothing". He brought it on himself. I have zero sympathy for him. Did he "deserve" it? No. Did he ask for it? Did he instigate it? Absolutely!

[multigraincracker]

31. True, but he did nothing illegal.

He did demand his his rights. We don’t know what kind of experience he has had with other cops. The charges were dropped and he does have a good case in civil court.
On the other hand those cops did not follow department policy or the law.
I was married to a cop and found many of them are rude and crooked to the core.

[Oopsie Daisy]

33. I saw how he refused to identify himself. He tried to leave when he told that he was being detained.

Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2024, 06:53 AM - Edit history (1)

That's illegal.

[multigraincracker]

35. He was being illegally detained, as

the cops didn’t bother to read the notice posted in the window.
Notice the photo of the bloody face of the victim. This was done while he was in handcuffs.
I suspect the cops will not win in the civil law suit and it will cost the dept millions.
There no laws that require a citizen to be polite. The old guy broke no laws. The cops did and will pay.
When the cops turned off their body cameras to discuss it, that sealed the deal.

[Oopsie Daisy]

36. No, he was not being illegally detained. The cops were still investigating what the situation was *

* when he escalated it. He should have been calm and cooperative. The cops have a right to detain someone in the course of their normal duties. It was completely avoidable, but because of his own actions, this clown got exactly what was coming to him.

>> There no laws that require a citizen to be polite.
Who is making this claim? I've never said such a thing, have I? What I have said is that his belligerence and hostility landed him in that situation.

>> The old guy broke no laws.
Yes he did. It's his own fault. He does not need to be "polite" but he cannot refuse to ID himself. He cannot order the police to "get off my property" when they are investigating a call. He cannot leave when he's been told that he's being detained in the course of their investigation and finding out what's going on. Even if the neighbor's call was flawed, incorrect, or made with malice, the cops are allowed to investigate and find out more. This gentleman (?) on the other hand, is not allowed to interfere. Even if he remained passive and refused to identify himself in total silence, he could still be arrested for refusing to ID himself or refusing to comply with a lawful order. He could be arrested for leaving when told that he's being detained. He could have additional charges piled on for resisting arrest and assaulting an officer.

>> Notice the photo of the bloody face of the victim.
Yes, I saw that. It looks painful... but the blood from head wounds, even small ones, can be more dramatic-looking that the actual wound. In any case, this was because he was resisting. He shouldn't have done that. Hopefully he learned a lesson and won't do that again.

[multigraincracker]

37. We will see what happens in court.

[Oopsie Daisy]

38. He will be found guilty and will probably be given a "suspended sentence" or probation *

* he will not receive a jackpot payday that he and his defenders are expecting.

[multigraincracker]

39. Charges were dropped.

[Oopsie Daisy]

40. Good to know.

Thanks for the update.

[Clash City Rocker]

2. On the bright side, he's an older white guy, so he's still alive

[Envirogal]

3. I will never understand

Why people who are completely innocent have so much hostility in the beginning to the police doing an investigation. They escalate it and make it way worse than it could’ve been. If I am a property owner and the police are called on me on my own property, I am going to work with them because I have nothing to hide and it would soon be clear that there was no problem. I would also be somewhat grateful that the police would actually investigate in case there was a time that it would’ve benefited me to know someone was trespassing on my property.

But if all of the time is spent dealing with belligerence and being uncooperative, and in fact, trying to gun the car to escape after they’ve been told they cannot leave, then there has to be actions to control the situation so the investigation can move on. Perhaps it is excessive force in some of their techniques, and that is surely something that the police department should be better trained on for alternative techniques, but that old man as he calls himself, brought this on himself.

[ret5hd]

4. somebody else who had nothing to hide:

another:

i could go on and on. want me to?

the hard facts are: police need more than 6 weeks training…they need at least as much time training as a hair dresser does. and a SUBSTANTIAL portion of that training needs to involve the constitution…freedom of speech (and freedom of silence), freedom of the press, etc.

the police act so often as if they are “feelings” enforcers AND that they are above any laws. end police training like this:

end qualified immunity…make police purchase their own insurance much as a doctor or any other professional may.

[Envirogal]

7. I am not excusing unnecessary excessive police force

My comments were directly towards the behavior of the people involved in this incident in the post and those times where the police are not at fault.

There is a litany of videos of hysterical and belligerent people who think they can bully and be uncooperative with authority that escalate unnecessarily where they bring the problem on themselves.

I am not advocating to protect police excessive violence as a result of the SWAT team like “toys” police departments acquire and Rambo style training they are given that they can’t wait to use on civilians over parking tickets. Or even the complexity of revamping qualified immunity (it is not a baby out with the bath water solution).

I think we can agree this is not what happened here.

[ret5hd]

9. LOL...did we watch the same video???

78 yr old crotchety man, promptly identifies himself, thrown to ground, handcuffed, at his own house…

police all upset because 78 yr old crotchety man didn’t give them utmost deference and suitable grovelling (absolutely NOT a crime!)….muted body cams, etc

AND YOUR COMPLAINT ISNT ABOUT THE COPS!!!

Ok…you do you.

[stopdiggin]

10. of course, pivot quickly to other incidents ...

when the post you responded to addressed specific aspects of the OP clip.

As the poster pointed out, the subject here was a horse's ass, intentionally uncooperative and belligerent, and contributed substantially to unnecessary escalation. Refute that, rather than going off on a tangent involving unrelated cases.

[ret5hd]

12. A) which of these are illegal (please be specific)

1: being a horses ass
2: uncooperative (despite identifying himself, right?)

B)
1: who did the (admitted by you to be unnecessary) escalation?
2: what was the purpose of the muted body cams

we, as citizens and humans, are under NO obligation to cooperate with extra-legal demands, nor are we obligated to grovel. it might be polite, but POLICE ARENT FEELINGS ENFORCEMENT…they are law enforcement.

[stopdiggin]

15. did not say illegal. said subject was uncooperative, belligerent, and contributed to escalation

leading to a share of the blame for the way this unfolded. ( cranky old man was looking for a fight - found one - then went to, "can't breath .. I'm an old man .." and the sympathy card ) I'm happy to criticize LE when they're clearly in the wrong and acting way out of bounds. Also reserve the right to criticize private citizens - when they're acting like an ass!

While you make a point of 'no obligation' - chances are good that this situation would have been peacefully (not to mention much more quickly) resolved with some courtesy and cooperation. But - go ahead - become immediately dismissive and belligerent .... And good luck to ya'.

[ret5hd]

17. police ARE NOT FEELINGS ENFORCEMENT!

what part of that is difficult to understand? if someone is apt to overreact they should not be a cop!

a person-on-the-street is NOT OBLIGATED to treat police or anyone else with deference and/or groveling…especially on their own property.

“what is this person LEGALLY obligated to do?” should be the first question in a cops mind, and there should be extensive training on this subject. if i am not LEGALLY required to do something, they have no right to penalize me in ANY WAY for not doing that thing.

[stopdiggin]

18. so you keep saying (in ALL CAPS)

on the other hand - most of us (adults) have found that attempting to cooperate and get along with others - is often the better option. (whether it is a legal requirement or not)

[ret5hd]

19. you are correct...BUT is not legally required.

that’s one hard fact you keep butting up against.

and the only implication i can draw is you (and some others) believe it is ok to suffer legal consequences (arrest, detention, jail, fines, lawyer fees, etc) for completely legal actions.

i disagree.

[Envirogal]

20. Did he get arrested or just detained to settle him down?

Even in the insurance world they assess responsibility on preventing an incident often times it is ruled both parties are at fault even if one was more at fault than the other.

Being an ass can get you killed—its a citizens right and they are not legally obligated to be nice, but escalating and putting yourself and your wife through trauma is also their right to bring on themselves.

But ignoring the fact the geezer tried to push the accelerator and leave is a factor that set the stage, not whether he was pleasant or cooperative or got his license taken out of his hand.

If the police violated protocol then that is to be dealt with. If the guy wasn’t in foreclosure, then no problem—that would have been resolved quickly instead of a prolonged mess. Maybe he should talk to his neighbor that sent the police into this situation.

And I say this as no big supporter of law enforcement. But I detest asshats that put themselves in dumb positions whether it’s the police or citizens.

[Oopsie Daisy]

27. Sovereign-Citizens, & "auditors"... all looking for trouble. Trying to press-buttons and test limits.

Then when they find the limit, they cry foul and pretend to be the victim. Many of them do it with video camera in hand (and a buddy/partner for the "B-roll&quot knowing that if they try hard enough they can escalate the situation and have content for their monetized youtube channel. Others livestream while asking for donations to their patreon account... promising that if they reach a certain number of contributions, they'll trespass where they've been told to stay out of.)

It always seems to be less about "don't tread on me" and more about "pay me pay me"

[Quixote1818]

13. So being uncooperative to police who he asked to leave his property, justifies them ripping his drivers license

out of his hands and slamming him to the ground? WOW! Please don't ever be on a jury!

Being a horses ass is protected under the Constitution.

[stopdiggin]

16. and is still ill advised - for many reasons, and in many situations -(nt)-

[Quixote1818]

6. LOL? It's their right to be angry under the constitution. They are minding their own business and cops came onto

their property. Please just listen to what the laws are which the narrator describes in details.

[Envirogal]

14. Except that a neighbor called the police.

It wasn’t like the police were bored and decided to harass senior citizens on their own property. There had been some misunderstanding with the property and THIER NEIGHBOR, wanted the police to check it out. What were they supposed to do?

Angry is their right but not to impede them from doing their job. Especially when he hit the gas on a vehicle after told not to leave.

[Oopsie Daisy]

24. Thank you. He was indeed belligerent, uncooperative, aggressive, hostile. It's all on him.

It started at a "10" and it only increased from there.

[multigraincracker]

28. A lawyer and a cop explain why you should never talk to the cops.

There are good reasons to not talk to them even if you have done nothing