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[Name removed]

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. He could, and a lot of his supporters would still support him.

But most would not, after he already promised not to do so.

He knew how corrupt the system was going in, and he decided to be principled even when he knew others would not.

[Merryland]

10. promises can be rethought if the corruption becomes unbearable - and it nearly is.

[COLGATE4]

2. For one because that would guarantee

us a President Trump (or Rubio or Cruz). No, thanks.

[cantbeserious]

4. IMHO - A Vote For HRC In The Primary Is A Vote For Trump In The General Election

eom

[COLGATE4]

5. You can't be serious. nt

[cantbeserious]

6. Deadly Serious

eom

[Jackilope]

7. Turn out is already higher for GOP voters than Democratic.

Combine that with the disenfranchised youth who now stay home and viola. Pres. Trump or Rubio.

It's been a rigged operation for the 1% from get go.

[Merryland]

12. It may be rigged

but many will write in Bernie or stay home this year.

[cantbeserious]

16. Roger That - The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword

eom

[Baobab]

55. I have no confidence that my state's elections are even remotely honest, BC voting machines are vuln

The voting machines in my state are so easy to hack that three generations of computer science students have started their careers in computer security writing scholarly papers in scientific journals about their many vulnerabilities.

And they still haven't replaced them!

This is an entertaining and educational web page about the issue, dramatized with a real machine, that was bought for $15 as scrap from a government auction site by Princeton professor Andrew Apfel. A must read if you haven't already.

How I bought used voting machines on the Internet
https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/avc/

[cantbeserious]

13. Roger That - There Are Five Effective Parties - The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Own Three

Republican - Corporate - Ownership Obvious

Republican - Teaparty - Funded by O, C, B

Democratic - Corporate - Compromised by O, C, B

Democratic - Progressive - Sick and Tired of The DNC

Independent - Sick and Tired of Both Establishment Parties

[CoffeeCat]

46. That's it. Right there.

As sad as it is to see the our country's current political quagmire categorized like that--what you have laid out is spot-on analysis.

It's chilling.

It's clear that our government no longer fits the definition of a democracy. The majority of our elected representatives serve powerful corporate interests, not We The People.

That's frightening. However, what is more frightening are the people who don't get this.

What we are witnessing with this election is the implosion of both parties due to voter outrage. The Republicans are through with the corrupt establishment. However, they're answer is a racist demagogue who has convinced them that immigrants and Muslims are the problem.

Half of the Democratic Party is rejecting the corrupt establishment. They will further reject it if Hillary is the nominee. The DNC made the mistake of leveraging one candidate and attempting to weaken a well-supported opponent. The damage seems irreversible.

I struggle with how corrupt and myopic the DNC has been with their thumb-on-the-scale ploys. The debate schedule was a joke. The RNC has commented on how egregious their unfairness was/is. Pretty sad when the RNC is calling out the DNC on corruption and election rigging.

The great unraveling of establishment power, in both parties, seems to have begun.

[monicaangela]

27. Many primaries require a person to elect democrat or republican

Independents are not allowed to vote in many elections, and from what I have been able to understand it appears more independents vote democrat the majority of the time.

[TBF]

59. In the primary - but the post was about the general

Here in TX you have to pick which slate you'd like for the primary - democratic slate or republican slate. In the general it's one machine & you can cross over or vote Indy. Even the Greens get on the ballot down here because there are enough activists in Austin, TX to make it happen.

[Fawke Em]

57. Yes, we're serious.

Between the lack of enthusiasm for her, the fact that Bernie Millennials (and some of their parents) will stay home, write-in Bernie or (some) vote for Trump (anti-establishment vote) if Bernie's not the nominee, and the enthusiasm of Republicans to vote AGAINST her, she really has no chance in a general election.

She'll lose Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and either Colorado or Pennsylvania (or both).

Sprinkle in a real indictment or the specter of one and she's pretty much toast.

My mother isn't the political junkie I am, but she's always been a JFK Democrat (even voting opposite my father when he went Reagan Democrat - he came back "home" with Obama before he died, just so you know). She's allegedly in Clinton's wheelhouse - white, in her 60s and Southern - but she is VERY worried that if she's the nominee, her legal troubles will kill her in the general. Mom voted for Bernie (and she thinks he's cute, too. LOL.). She doesn't hate Hillary, but she simply doesn't want to go through all the scandals again.

[2pooped2pop]

15. Yep if she wins, trump will easily beat her

We all lose.

[LonePirate]

21. Bernie does not believe that so why should his supporters?

[cantbeserious]

22. Bernie Has To Go Back To The Rathole Called Congress - The Voters Do Not

eom

[valerief]

30. I'm feeling the same way, unfortunately. I don't want to, but it's so hard to ignore

all of those Republican voters who would have voted for Bernie, but with Bernie out of the race, they'll vote for Trump.

[cantbeserious]

34. Roger That - Both Crossover Republicans And Independents

eom

[KitSileya]

43. I know that some republicans have stated that they'll vote for Clinton if

Trump wins the nomination (Christine Whitman), but I haven't seen any of them say they'll vote for Sanders if Trump wins the nomination. Have I missed a news article somewhere?

(This is a sincere question. Any Republican who will vote for the Dem nominee is great.)

[valerief]

52. I've spoken with Republicans who say they'll vote for Bernie.

However, like with you, that's merely anecdotal. You might want to do some googling.

https://www.facebook.com/republicansforbernie/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-lifelong-conservatives-who-love-bernie-sanders/417441/
https://www.reddit.com/r/RepublicansForSanders
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/21/republicans_for_bernie_sanders_why_the_democratic_socialist_is_sweeping_his_home_state_partner/
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/why-bernie-sanders-starting-attract-conservative-voters
https://www.facebook.com/Conservatives-for-Bernie-1604348263141661/

[KitSileya]

54. Thank you for the sincere answer.

Christine Whitman isn't anecdotal, of course, that was reported at nj.com.

[Fawke Em]

61. The only Republicans I've heard say they'll vote for Clinton if Trump is the nominee

are in the establishment - and that represents a mere handful of people.

Most Republicans I know - and I know a lot since I live in the South - will vote Trump if Clinton is the nominee because they'll vote for a wooden plank if it ran against Clinton. They seethe hate for her.

[TDale313]

3. No, and I'm a Bernie supporter.

But I don't think he should run as an independent. We'd split the vote on the left and pretty much insure a Trump presidency.

[Kittycat]

8. Without Bernie, there is no vote on the left

We're just deciding which republican to vote for. Third way isn't Democrat, when they support republican measures and are corrupted by lobbyists.

[TDale313]

9. While I get that an independent run would not be helpful IMO.

I agreed with him when he ruled it out in the first place.

[Kittycat]

11. I'm not disagreeing with that

I'm just stating the obvious fact. HRC isn't a died in the wool Democrat. And we can argue whether Bernie is, but when it comes down to party issues he lives by, time and time again - she is on the wrong side of history when it comes to the issues that really matter. War, campaign finance, incarceration, welfare. Her statements, trust, etc.

[TDale313]

17. Oh, absolutely agree. n/t

[valerief]

33. Yeah, but it's the right side for her at the time. nt

[Merryland]

26. couldn't agree more.

[LiberalElite]

20. IMO, and I'm not a student of politics - the Democratic Party

is split already. It just hasn't been officially declared yet. Bernie supporters are always pressured with "will you vote for Clinton if she's the nominee" I haven't gotten an answer from any Clinton supporter when I turn the question back on THEM. Crickets. Maybe they just feel entitled to ignore the question.

[swilton]

60. But with the split on the left

it could be a resurgent New Deal Democratic Party - it's long overdue.

[SheilaT]

14. In theory yes.

In reality, he won't do that. He understands that if he were to do that, he'd split the Democratic vote and would guarantee the Republican candidate a win.

I'm not convinced Hillary can beat the Donald in the General Election for several reasons:
Her negatives are sky-high, which would both depress the votes for her, and bring out the anti-Hillary vote in large numbers.
A lot of Bernie supporters will simply not vote for Hillary.
A small percentage of those who currently support him would vote for Donald. Those people are, in my opinion, very misguided about who would be a good choice, and see Donald's willingness to speak his mind as a good thing. These are people who are not merely low information voters, but who do not understand the political process very well at all.

[Mufaddal]

18. He could but almost certainly would not

As much as part of me would like to see that, he almost certainly won't simply because he said that he would not. (And if he did, for it to have much broad credibility, he would need to decide to before it looks like he is facing a definite loss--otherwise it will just look like sour grapes. For instance, right after NH would have been an opportune moment.) Ultimately, that Bernie consistency cuts both ways.

Also there is a question of how much time he would need to get on the ballot in various states, and if he would have missed a number of deadlines already later down the road, no?

[TBF]

25. This is where your premise falls apart -

Trump's support is not corporate. Make no mistake - he will definitely prop up the money party if elected. But that is not who is supporting him. The folks w/money in Texas (real money) are dismayed by his run. They wanted Bush but are settling for Rubio because it's their only choice at this point (Cruz creeps everyone out - even down here).

Let's say it's Trump vs. Hillary with Bernie running indy. Trump will just win by more votes because Hillary & Bernie split. Bernie is not that stupid.

[Merryland]

28. and he won't forget who his enemies were.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. If the election is stolen from him with Super Delegates or rigging evoting machines,

The "deal" he made with corrupt DWS/DNC is rendered null and void! He should run as an Independent, but he won't.

I wish he would though. The Oligarchs can't be allowed to get away with all the shit they've pulled this election cycle. It will never stop unless someone stops THEM. If it's not Bernie, I hope another strong PROGRESSIVE runs Third Party.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[SoapBox]

32. Agree.

The Dem party is already fractured...there are the DWS/HRC "haves" and then the rest of us...another reason people are leaving in droves to become Independants (a recent story in California, for both parties).

Should Bernie not get the nomination, via the vote and super delegate rigging...I will switch to Undeclared in CA after a lifetime of being a Democrat.

Rump loonie or Hill Turd Way...that's not even a choice.

[TBF]

24. I don't think Bernie has that kind of an ego -

we'd be more likely to see Trump pull that stunt.

[Merryland]

31. and no doubt he will!

[monicaangela]

29. I don't think Bernie would do that

Hillary might though.

[emulatorloo]

53. She wouldn't either. Neither of our candidates want Trump, Cruz, or Rubio to win.

There is way too much at stake in this election.

She'll endorse Bernie and campaign for him if he wants her to get on the campaign trail.

Bernie will do the same should she end up being the nominee.

[emulatorloo]

35. He could, but he won't. He's not going to enable the Republican Apocalypse

It is against everything he stands for.

However if he isn't the nominee he will work like hell to reform the Dem party after the election.

[tazkcmo]

44. yes!

This isn't a one election thing. We have a lot of work to do and this election is just the first step in a journey of a million steps. Stay focused, head down and chin up.

[Smarmie Doofus]

36. Best to just stay out of prospective Trump v. Clinton run.

Stock up on the popcorn and send $$$ to legit DEMs wherever they run.

That's what *I'd* do (as of now, anyway.) They're both "mystery meat" . No real reason to think that one would advance progressive values more than the other.

The senator will likely endorse Clinton.

At least formally.


And probably *only* formally.

[BillZBubb]

37. Bernie is the most honest person running--I'd dare say the only one.

He said he wouldn't run as a third party candidate. You can bet your life he will not, no matter how much the DNC screws him over.

[Kip Humphrey]

38. Ballot access registration window will make this pretty much impossible to do.

[Kalidurga]

39. No

If we want a Liberal to run third party we need to start fresh like in 2020 if Hillary gets the nomination and just put someone in a third party that could be viable. I am not suggesting this person, but someone like Jesse Ventura who can rally people to vote for him, personally I would rather run Stubbs.

[sharp_stick]

40. Ai Yi Yi

I suppose we'll be hearing more of this as we get closer to the nomination?

Bernie promised he wouldn't run a third party or independent bid and I take him at his word.

[yodermon]

41. "sore loser" laws would keep him off the ballot in enough states

to prevent this. Aside from the fact that he promised not to do so.

[tazkcmo]

42. Why Not?

Because Sen Sanders said he wouldn't. He's a man of principles and if he goes back on his word on this he will lose my support. His appeal to me, among several things, is his integrity. Without it, he may as well be Sec Clinton or any other run of the mill politician that says one thing and does another. No thank you.

[SheenaR]

47. I feel the same way about him

but I would be able to get over it. Clinton and Trump do not represent virtually anything I stand for.

[tazkcmo]

51. I couldn't.

It would be a give up move. It would signal to me that the Revolution is over and it was all talk to begin with.

[SheenaR]

48. Here's a scenario which could work

The Republicans are exploring their own 3rd party possibilities. If Bernie was the 4th candidate to get in, then I'd be all for it. And I think we would actually have a very good chance.

[Baobab]

49. I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary, not again.

I think she is part of a plot to hijack democracy with undemocratic trade deals. Lying about that all the time. She has some major explaining to do.

Read the book "Serving Whose Interests" - Its on the web.

That explains the situation. The book is really well written. Its by Jane Kelsey, oe of New Zealand's leading thinkers and an expert on globalization. There you will see that if the pending trade deals pass, Bernie Sanders entire platform will be prevented from being able to do what it is supposed to do. The trade deals hijack the entire future. There is no expiration date so they intend to future-proof the future against democracy. They eliminate public health care and education unless it existed before 1995 and stays exactly the same, not taking a cent from anybody except a government. So obviously the US does not qualify for that exemption.

This paper from the CCPA is mostly about TPP and ite attack on Canadian single payer health care- it also applies to us and explains a lot.

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/reports/major-complications

[artyteacher]

50. you know this is a Democratic site, right?

Not an Independent or whatever site.

I think to suggest such a thing is blasphemy to the Democratic party.

If I ran the site, the post would be hidden and the OP warned that a perma ban was next.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. That would be counter productive, Bernie is far too smart for that.

Winning is great. Also great, changing the entire paradigm of what is possible in our politics. Introducing ideas and themes and goals that need to be on our societal table. Winning is great. It's also not everything if you are doing it right. I'd say for Clinton right now, the win is the whole thing. For Bernie part of it is about changing the terms of the game itself.

[TBF]

62. But you are specifically posting in the Bernie group -

in here we all support Bernie and what is best for his supporters. What you are doing is trying to throw this election to the republicans (imo).

[HooptieWagon]

63. He agreed not to.

IDK the exact wording of the agreement...but he did say he didn't want to be a spoiler. IDK what promises the DNC made, but it's apparent they're throwing their weight behind one candidate and trying to rig the nomination in her favor. IDK if that voids any agreement. Sanders would have difficulty getting on some states ballot as a third party candidate.