Thu Jun 7, 2012, 06:24 PM
turtlerescue1 (1,013 posts)
Howl against wolf hunt in MN before June 20th
Last edited Thu Jun 7, 2012, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)
It's not the wolves in the woods that are the big concern for 2012!
On our last vacation before I was made a widow, we went to Washkish, MN to a new campground(2005). I have to see what's around me, so we took a drive with our pair of Dachsies which always managed to keep me BUSY. Get about half way around Upper Red Lake towards the Village, and my mate says "Was that a wolf?" I saw squat, so he turned around, and from that millisecond on all I could see was a tail going the speed of light.
Three-four month old pup, looked to have Malamute in her.
Emaciated understates it.
My mate and I had our last fight of this lifetime. "If I'ld have known you were gonna put that #@#$ dog in this @#$# car, I wouldn't have turned around." And my reply "That @#$$ dog wouldn't be in this #@$# car if you hadn't turned around."
When we got to the village, went to a market and bought a 25 lb bag of kibble.
When we got back to camp, and for years I kept it as proof, the young female pup's first poop was literally mud and pine needles. Amazed me then AND now.
Next morning I'm off to the Ranger's office after being soundly infomed we don't need another dog. (I'm still not sure my life has ever really been about what I thought I needed.) The Ranger said "I'ld love to have her (very LONG pause) BUT, she's claimed you, she watches your every hand gesture and movement." Happy Birthday to me, a new puppy.
I didn't name her, the Ranger did. His logic was that this was one of the very few villages left that practice the old ways, so she became "Ponemah". Don't worry, it took me seven weeks to say it correctly twice in a row.
The day before when we got to the village I asked the cashier what the name meant, she said "Across the Lake".
The Ranger said in our english it really means "The Life hereafter". That day I thought it meant her life, three months later it included mine.
I asked my vet about her being a wolf-hybrid and the laws in the City of Mpls, the vet said "Just say, okay, but you pay for the DNA testing." grin.
This was a reallllllllly busy busy pup, amazing things she did. Just amazing feats.
But after the death of my mate, each night she would start out at the foot of the bed, and each morning i would wake up to find my head in the curve of her belly atop my pillow.
Took a while and hints from two friends...
THIS is the most astounding, perceptive, intelligent canine my life has known. I have no choice but see in all our "breeding" efforts we have destroyed some of the best qualities.
SO- my first THREAD at DU has to be about the public comment at the MN DNR website about holding a wolf hunt. CLOSES JUNE 20th!!
6 replies, 3492 views
Howl against wolf hunt in MN before June 20th (Original post)
Response to turtlerescue1 (Original post)
Thu Jun 7, 2012, 11:09 PM
happyslug (11,535 posts)
2. The most Hunter and wolf like of dogs tend to be the most intelligent
Last edited Thu Jun 7, 2012, 11:09 PM - Edit history (1)
National Geographic did a DNA study on the genes in Dogs. National Geographic then divided the DNA into four categories:
What is called the "Smartest dog" the Border Collie (It is considered the easiest to train thus the Smartest) is mostly Hunter, with about 10% Herder, 15% Mastiff and two dashes of Wolf like genes.
The second "Smartest dog" the Standard (i.e. LARGE) Poodle is about equal Hunter and Herder, with about 15% Mastiff with two "dashes" of Wolf.
The only dog breed from North America, the Australia Shepherd (Yes its name is Australia shepherd, but it is a Cold Weather Dog, probably first breed in Montana, it floppy ears and double coat would make it to hot in Australia, the most popular theory on its name was it was dog to heard Australia Sheep. which was imported do to the drop in Cattle prices and the increase in wool prices after 1890). It is still mostly Hunter, but with about 15% Herder, 20% Massif and just under 10% Wolf-like
Dachshunds have just a little bit less Hunter then An Australia Shepherd a little more Herder then an Australia Shepherd, a little more Massif then an Australia Shepherd but just a dash of Wolf-like genes.
Now the most "Wolf Like Dogs" are small to medium size dogs (20-40 pounds) such as the The Chow-Chow, the Akita, Shar-pei, Shiba-inu. But also among the most "Wolf like" were the Alaskan Malamute (85 pounds) and the Smaller Siberian Husky (50-75 pounds. when first brought over from Siberia tended to the 50 pound mark, but recent breeding has increased the weight for larger and heavier dogs do better in dog shows, thus a problem with ALL DOGS that have connections to the American Kennel Association, AKA)
When I was growing up Husky were called "Dumb" because they had a habit of NOT returning home every night. More recently I have read the problem is Huskies, unless part of an actual sled term that is used daily, have a habit of going off for days on their own, sometimes traveling hundreds of miles, and then returning home. Thus not dumb, just will go home when it wants to NOT when the owner wants it to.
National Geo Dog DNA Chart:
Please note the DNA chart is a rough guide only, our Knowledge of what genes do what is barely known. We know the sequences in genes of most species (recent development) but what genes do what is still mostly unknown. Thus one gene may hold all of the differences between two animals or even breeds (Just look at the Dachshunds and the Australia Shepherd, almost the exact same DNA, but different in look, temperateness, coat, leg size, over all size, etc. The Border Collie acts more like an Australia Shepherd then a Dachshund, yet the Australia Shepherd and a Dachshunds have similar DNA, while the Border Collie is substantially different.
The Border Collie and the Poodle have about the same amount of Wolf-Like genes, so it is not the "Wolf-like" genes that makes then smart (through may be a factor). The Poodle has a lot more "Herder" in them then the well known herding dogs like the Australia Shepherd or the the Border Collie (and a lot more Herder in Poodles then in the Dachshund) thus the "herding Gene pool" seems NOT to be a factor (and the same can be said of the Mastiff-like, which tends to bring out the guard dog in Dachshunds, Australia Shepherd and the German Shepherd, which is mostly Mastiff).
Of all of the Dogs, the Bulldog has the most Mastiff (beating out even the Mastiff itself as does the Boxer), but Bulldogs were breed for certain functions (And the Bulldog would have died out in the 1800s, except a Bulldog was born with a good temperament, previous boxers were known to be mean and known to bite, which is untrue of bulldogs today. The original temperament is what they were breed to do, bite cattle in cattle pens so the cattle went into the right pens). Mastiff like dogs are known to be intelligent (The German Shepherd is the best example, but so are the other Mastiff-like dogs). The Airedale Terrier has the least Massiff-like gene of all the dogs on the list, it is considered a very smart dog, thus seems to point out Intelligence is NOT related to the Mastiff-like genes.
Similar arguments can be made about the Hunting group of genes, but since Wolf's are hunters, this does NOT exclude the wolf from being the source of the Hunting group of genes. The Border Collie and the Poodle has a large amount of Hunter genes in them, thus implying this is the set of genes related to intelligence (But the German Shepherd has little such "hunter" genes in its makeup, being mostly Massif but it has a good double dash of "Hunter" in the German Shepherd through just a touch of Wolf-like genes).
I have owned, Border Collies, Australia Shepherds and Poodles, I have "dog sitted" Dachshunds. You can see the Masiff in the Australian Shepherd, they want to guard something, preferably a herd of something. They will communicate danger quite well (i.e. time to turn around) at the same time they are prepared to get the first bite in (I took an Australian Shepherd on a night walk in the Smoky Mountains one time, he walked beside, did not pull on the leash, but still communicated his desire to turn around, while his body was clearly set to pounce. Then I heard the bear trying to get into the Garbage can and decided to turn around, and my dog was very happy).
Border Collies want a job to do, something anything just "tell" them what you want they will do it. Poodles are just as bad, not as easy to catch on, but they want to do what you want them to do. One difference between the Poodle and the Australian Shepherd and Border Collies I have lived with, The general rule in dogs is males will go twice as far as females off lead. A female Poodle will go twice as far as a male Australian Shepherd and Border Collie I have lived with. Just one difference between the breeds, Poodles were breed to hunt, to flush birds and recover birds, thus going far was bread into them. Australian Shepherds and Border Collies were bred to work with a person to control a herd (Border Collies to keep the head together and to go where the master of the Border Collie wants the herd or one member of the herd to go, on the other hand Australian Shepherds were bred to drive and guard the herd in addition to keeping the herd together, getting the herd to go where the master wanted it to go was the Master's or some Border Collies's job).
Just a comment on the dogs and their DNA. I have never had any dealings with a dog with mostly Wolf-Like DNA (as is seems "Ponemah" is) but it is nice to hear nice things about the bred.
Response to happyslug (Reply #2)
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 12:49 AM
turtlerescue1 (1,013 posts)
3. Thanks, will be up learning a bit more.
There has got to be a more intelligent solution than a Kill. True, even if I had no Ponemah in my life, I'ld be against a kill. BUT because of the experience, I know its wrong. These would be make superior Service Dogs, the list of positives still amazes me. We just keep wasting our resources and blessings, it'll come back to bite us deeply.
Until two years ago, I wasn't all that positive Ponemah was a wolf-dog. We had a local event, put a POW/MIA scarf around her and off we went. She's a people dog, and also men and older ladies just to HAVE to touch her. There was a BEST DOG contest. There were only two dogs there, the other a cute little poodle in an outfit. The winner was decided by crowd applause, Ponemah won clearly. Afterwards I had to be interviewed by the local radio station, a lady came up to me and showed me a picture on her cellphone, looked like she had just taken Ponemah's picture. She said "When you're done here, come over the that booth and we'll talk about wolf-hybrids".
She and her husband had a pure wolf female, that a local Golden Lab found a way to breed.
Their wolf disappeared mysteriously, but they had the two pups. Once more the lady got out her cellphone with the picture. I looked down at Ponemah and said "You take a really good picture." Her husband said "No, Look closer." The Two pups. The markings, the coloring, even the markings on the head and snout-so precise to Ponemah, looked like the same litter. Even though Ponemah's litter was a little over 1300 miles North! I had no idea they could have a similar look.
Thankyou again, gotta go look at the site.
Response to turtlerescue1 (Original post)
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 01:29 AM
Rhiannon12866 (59,635 posts)
4. Kudos to you for rescuing such an amazing pup.
She found you, which certainly proves how smart she is. And you've found a friend for life. Thank you for sharing your wonderful story with us and welcome to DU!
Better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference FDR -1936