Daniel Tosh and rape jokes: Still not funny

[seabeyond]

Daniel Tosh’s humor, however, is utterly lacking in grace. The star of Comedy Central’s “Tosh.0? does not possess the transformative power of his betters, so when he tries to be edgy and transgressive, it tends to fall flat. In April, the unapologetic misogynist encouraged his audience to film themselves touching women softly on their stomachs. I am not quite sure how this encroachment on personal space and ignorance of appropriate boundaries constitutes humor, but it takes all kinds. (I’m also a woman — we are, from what I hear, not funny.) Nonetheless, the incident gave me pause, particularly when his ardent fans actually began filming themselves touching women softly on their stomachs and posting the videos to YouTube. Somehow, they thought this behavior was acceptable because the comic they admired told them so. You’d be amazed what people are willing to do when they are given permission, either implicitly or explicitly.

*

Rape humor is designed to remind women that they are still not quite equal. Just as their bodies and reproductive freedom are open to legislation and public discourse, so are their other issues. When women respond negatively to misogynistic or rape humor they are “sensitive” and branded as feminist a word which has, as of late, become a catch all term for, “woman who does not tolerate bullshit.” Humor is subjective but is it that subjective? I don’t have it in me to find rape jokes funny or to tolerate them in any way. It’s too close a topic. Rape is many things — humiliating, degrading, physically and emotionally painful, exhausting, irritating. It is never funny for most women. There are not enough years in this lifetime to create the kind of distance where I could laugh and say, “That one time, when I was gang raped, was totally hilarious, a real laugh riot.”

*

Many comedians are very proud of themselves for saying the things others are supposedly afraid to say. They are at the forefront of this culture of entitlement where we get to know everything, do anything, think anything, and say anything. People don’t use humor to comment on the “awful things in the world,” because they are afraid. Maybe, just maybe, they have common sense; they have conscience. Sometimes, saying what others are afraid or unwilling to say is just being an asshole. We are all free to be assholes but we are not free to do so without consequence. What Tosh calls heckling, I’d call taking a stand. All too often, when we see injustices, both great and small, we think, “That’s terrible,” but we do nothing. We say nothing. We let other people fight their own battles. We remain silent because silence is easier.

*

When that woman stood up and said, “No, rape is not funny,” she did not consent to participating in a culture that encourages lax attitudes toward sexual violence and the concerns of women. Rape humor is what encourages a man to feel comfortable tweeting to Daniel Tosh, “the only ppl who are mad at you are the feminist bitches who never get laid and hope they get raped so they can get laid,” which is one of the idiotic, Pavlovian responses a certain kind of person has when women have the nerve to suggest that they don’t find sexual violence amusing. In that man’s universe, women who get properly laid are totally fine with rape humor. A satisfied vagina is a balm in Gilead.

What surprises me, what really troubles me, is that only one person stood up and had the strength of conviction to say, “Enough.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/12/daniel_tosh_and_rape_jokes_still_not_funny/

_______________________________________

a different perspective.

[MadrasT]

1. *sigh*

“the only ppl who are mad at you are the feminist bitches who never get laid and hope they get raped so they can get laid,”

And people wonder where our rage comes from?

[seabeyond]

3. yup. nt

[MadrasT]

2. Wait, what?

Daniel Tosh’s humor, however, is utterly lacking in grace. The star of Comedy Central’s “Tosh.0? does not possess the transformative power of his betters, so when he tries to be edgy and transgressive, it tends to fall flat. In April, the unapologetic misogynist encouraged his audience to film themselves touching women softly on their stomachs. I am not quite sure how this encroachment on personal space and ignorance of appropriate boundaries constitutes humor, but it takes all kinds. (I’m also a woman — we are, from what I hear, not funny.) Nonetheless, the incident gave me pause, particularly when his ardent fans actually began filming themselves touching women softly on their stomachs and posting the videos to YouTube. Somehow, they thought this behavior was acceptable because the comic they admired told them so. You’d be amazed what people are willing to do when they are given permission, either implicitly or explicitly.

The blind follower, group-think behavior here is alarming.

[seabeyond]

4. yup. nt

[hlthe2b]

5. There are some things you just don't joke about...

I've seen some trying to defend this comedian's use of RAPE as a "punchline" by pointing to "the Producers" and "Hogan's Heroes" humorous depiction of WWII and the Nazis. Well, those shows may have laughed at a depiction of the Nazis as bumbling idiots, but they surely did not make light of the Holocaust. So this is hardly more than a ridiculous and pathetic attempt to defend derisive and offensive "comedy at all costs"....

Edgy comedy is one thing. But making light of pain and suffering afflicted on others is quite another

[seabeyond]

7. they surely did not make light of the Holocaust.

i was thinkin... too.

[redqueen]

6. My favorite part of this piece:

Humor about sexual violence suggests permissiveness —not for people who would never commit such acts, but for the people who have whatever weakness that allows them to do terrible things unto others. If any number of young men were willing to film themselves touching women lightly on their stomachs, how many were encouraged to ignore a woman’s no because Daniel Tosh finds rape amusing? What are the consequences if the answer is even one?

[seabeyond]

8. exactly. a good article from a different perspective. thank you redq. nt

[cwydro]

9. I've missed this story somehow...

but I intend to find out what's up.

What I've heard so far is just vile.

[cwydro]

10. Disgusting.

I really have no words.

That a young man would make a joke like that...wonder if he has sisters, a mom, any other female relatives.

Sickening.

[seabeyond]

11. here is another male comedian talking about it. the whole article is important. what his sister

said. what his rape joke was. but, it is good because of awareness. so this is what tosh has brought out. more people speaking out about this and how "unfunny" is is and the why's so many laugh, especially men, at rape jokes.

i know that it has brought conversation into our house about comedy adn the way it represents women.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12557546

[stepfordwife.com]

12. If that's what some men find funny, then....

more power to them.

Humor and the arts can never satisfy everyone's personal tastes.

The anonymous girl in question (like many girls) find Dane Cook funny. I think he's talentless, but understand why girls like him (not for the comedy, I'm sure).

I don't care for Tosh myself (he's funnier than Dane Cook....that's not saying much), but would rather men chuckle without censorship and care, then to become the overly sensitive, emasculated males of today.

After all, isn't that what makes men men?

Our kind of men anyway!

[seabeyond]

13. are you fuckin serious? by your name, i imagine not. girls vs men. everything about your post

you made sure to make it offensive.

appreciate your insight.

no, it is not what this WOMEN, not girl, wants in a man. my man doesnt like tosh. my boys... truly boys, you know, 14 and 17, not men yet, though i imagine you would call a boy a man, cause after all, in this society we give the title to the boys, where our women remain girls.... always, my boys didnt see the humor in it either. i dont know too many men that would.

but, thanks for sharing.

[sufrommich]

14. I'm guessing newly formed sock puppet.

Don't feed the trolls.

[sufrommich]

15. I take that back, not a new sock puppet,

an old sock puppet who signed up Feb 24, 2011 and just decided to make an appearance now.

[seabeyond]

16. +1. lol. ya know. stepfordwife, nothing obvious there. nt

[sufrommich]

17. And yet a jury let it stand.

At Thu Jul 12, 2012, 07:13 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

If that's what some men find funny, then....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=7575

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

This is a troll, not a very nuanced troll, but a troll nonetheless.

"the overly sensitive, emasculated males of today"

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jul 12, 2012, 07:26 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Casually dismissing misogynistic humor as "no biggie" is best accompanied by pizza, in the finest DU tradition.



Apparently the right to tell rape jokes without getting any grief for it is the only thing standing between real men and "the overly sensitive, emasculated males of today" according to a DU jury. You would think the emasculated males who are "overly sensitive" schtick would have been the jury's first clue.

[redqueen]

18. Gotta love the jury system!

Step right up, everyone and anyone, help set the tone at DU!

[sufrommich]

19. It never fails to amaze me.nt

[seabeyond]

20. "the overly sensitive, emasculated males of today" it is a sad day, when our duers allow this kind

of insult to our men. damn good thing us feminist are on the ball calling this crap out.

[sufrommich]

21. My guess is that StepfordWives.com is

tired of feminist emasculating men by "whining" about rape jokes. Wanna bet StepfordWives is a homophobe too?

[seabeyond]

22. i am wonderin a whole lot about stepfordwhatever. nt

[redqueen]

23. The MRA chant - any man who isn't a stereotypical emotionless jerk isn't a "real man".

[seabeyond]

24. this is what i am thinking in the whole of the post. nt

[redqueen]

25. MRAs are fairly well known for their efforts to harass and and silence feminists online.

From the SPLC's piece on their tactics:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women

Amanda Marcotte, who is a prime Register-Her target, writes about men’s rights activists less than she used to. That’s not because she doesn’t take them seriously — they introduce too many “anti-woman, anti-child, pro-abuse, pro-rape ideas into the public discourse” not to — but because “they’re so doggedly mean. It becomes frightening after a while.” Marcotte says the registry may incite violence against its targets, especially because many angry male activists are active abusers. “They interact with their ideological adversaries online,” she says, “much as they do with their spouses and children: ‘I’ll give you something to cry about!’”

[seabeyond]

26. yes. i remember reading a couple articles on this a couple weeks ago when i was reading PUI

behaviors....

[cwydro]

38. uh, what?

are you serious?

our kind of men?

[hlthe2b]

39. stepfordwife...

The SOP for this group is clearly posted. In light of the SOP, this stirkes me as intentional flame baiting.

If that is not your intent, I'd strongly suggest you delete your post immediately. This group is not going to accept someone coming into tell us that "boys will be boys" even when making light of rape, denigrating women, and suggesting that men who respect women are "emasculated".

The hosts will not hesitate to block you if you can not participate in a respectful manner. I'll give you an hour from the time of this post and the pm I just sent to you.

On edit, I find evidence that you have returned with the intent to disrupt, based on your previous DU2 appearances

DU2 posts:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x534883#536026

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=557460&mesg_id=557530

and this:
The Stepford Wives Organization at stepfordwives.org (To Serve ...
www.stepfordwife.com/
Mar 14, 2012 – Stepford Wife Organization Stepford Wives Association.
Stepford Male Climax Right - Pleasing Men - Stepford Dress Code - Cooking

I have rescinded the offer to have you delete your post and be allowed to continue in this safe haven group and am blocking you immediately.

hlthe2b
co-host, History of Feminism

[Plucketeer]

27. In my 62 years of watching TV

Tosh is as STUPID a show as there ever has been - period

[seabeyond]

29. 5 men should rape her. sounds like she has been raped by 5 men. you think that is better?

that works for you?

creep. regardless.

[sufrommich]

30. "I personally find rape jokes hysterical. "

Here's a clue for you, this is a protected forum for feminists, you don't come on a feminist forum and say something like that. You want to laugh about rape, you'll find fellow travelers on DU I'm sure, but this ain't the place.

[seabeyond]

31. woooosh, woman. you have the voice.

[redqueen]

33. +1

[seabeyond]

32. are you a man or woman? cause talking about rape, it matters. i stopped reading your post

Just because his sense of humor is different doesn't make him any less of a man. He's just making fun of what is constantly shoved in all of our faces. I personally find rape jokes hysterical. I like to laugh at the evils of the world, because if i didn't, the darkness of it would consume me. In a country where nothing but rape and murder are the center fold of news topics, you're eventually going to become numb to the terror of it and just start to laugh, especially people in my generation.

if you are a man, and lilith suggest otherwise, i wonder how consumig the darkness of evil when it comes to rape, really touches you, compared to a woman. and how numb you come to the terror of rape, compared to a woman.

[Plucketeer]

34. Geez

just imagine lilith laughing his/her rear off as comrades fall in a withering hail of gunfire. lilith is NOT someone I'd wanna share a foxhole with! There is not the remotest thing amusing about rape. Not ONE!

[seabeyond]

35. laughing his/her rear off as comrades fall in a withering hail of gunfire

good point

[A-Schwarzenegger]

36. For post #28...

Is it ok to post jury results here? If not I'll delete...
---------------------

At Thu Jul 12, 2012, 09:46 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

She was a heckler at a comedy show.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=7600

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

"I personally find rape jokes hysterical." Where have you gone, DU?

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jul 12, 2012, 10:16 PM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: From Feminism group's SOP: "misogyny and sexism will not be tolerated". Rape jokes would seem to be a form of sexism, thus the rules of the Feminism forum state plainly enough that expressions such as "I personally find rape jokes hysterical" are unacceptable.

Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: misogynistic humor has no place here

Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I don't find the post disruptive, hurtful or insensitive or over-the-top. The poster was expressing his/her way of coping with evil. Not my sense of humor or method for doing so, but I can't say it's against the rules to say anything about it.

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: "I like to laugh at the evils of the world, because if i didn't, the darkness of it would consume me. In a country where nothing but rape and murder are the center fold of news topics, you're eventually going to become numb to the terror of it and just start to laugh, especially people in my generation."
COME ON, PEOPLE! HERE'S A CHANCE TO HELP INFLUENCE A YOUNG PERSON TO STRAIGHTEN THE F*CK OUT, or at least a chance to try before getting confrontational and writing 'em off. Popular culture is such a barrage of toxic images (eg. http://vigilantcitizen.com/pics-of-the-month/symbolic-pics-of-the-month-0712/ ). The poster sounds to me worth engaging, although I find the views expressed horrifying.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: As a woman, I do not find rape jokes hysterical, nor do I buy the explanation that one has to laugh at rape and murder to keep from going numb. Self-delusion.

[seabeyond]

37. thanks for sharing those. #5 was particularly interesting. i would have liked to

engage lilith on this, once i thought about the post. i was curious. i felt the poster was older, but maybe #5 is correct and it is a younger person. that being the case, i would have like to have had a conversation more.

interesting.

thanks

[hlthe2b]

40. Normally we don't A-Schwarzenegger, & just summarize results, but I'm going to let this one stay...

because there is some important info contained therein. I think it serves a purpose to remain.

But, I will say we don't want to make a habit of posting jury results because it tends to attract meta "stuff" to come and take over discussions.