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Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:48 AM

Where were all the Happy-Hookers when I was on The Game?

Something that I would find incredibly baffling – if I didn’t know exactly what’s going on here – is the amount of women I’ve come across online in my post-prostitution life who claim to be happy in prostitution. I would find it incredibly baffling because I never met a single one of them in all the years I was in prostitution. In all the innumerable brothels, on all the dingy street-corners, in all the knocking-shops that went – Hyacinth-Bucket-style – by the term ‘Escort Agencies’ there was an absolute dearth of these ‘Happy Hookers’. So, if I didn’t already know the answer, my question would be: where were you all hiding?

*

Sometimes they’ll tell us that they see prostitution as no different to a man who rents out the use of his body as a labourer. That’d make sense if labourers routinely suffered Post Traumatic Stress Disorder as a result of their employ. Sometimes they tell us that it is their body to do with what they will, and the simplicity and apparent reasonableness of that statement conceals that their insistence on being made into merchandise means that they assert it is tolerable for women to be made into merchandise in the first place. They view humanity as highly individualised, rather than what it really is; a community where each of us affects the other, fused together in that sense, rather like coral on a reef. The damage of their stance is incalculable.

The internets happy hookers will deny that their insistence has any consequences for anybody but themselves, and will say ‘No, we do not advocate prostitution for all women; only for those who choose to do it’. In saying so, they first deny the severity of the constraints behind those ‘choices’ for the vast majority of women. They then go on to ignore their insistence on a class of women who are made merchandise means that they insist all women are potential prostitutes, just as the cars in our driveways might one day be bought or sold, depending on fiscal constraints, because of their commodified status. This is what happens to women when they are reduced to the status of products and goods. Yet even faced with these bald truths, they tell us over and over that we are talking nonsense; that the opinions that have emerged from our own lived experience are nothing but propaganda sprung from some poisoned fountain of religious fundamentalist ideals. But it is not so much what these happy hookers tell us that frame’s the bigger part of the picture; that is concealed by what they do not tell us.

*

They do not tell us about the soul-level injury that capitalism and patriarchy have combined to create. They do not tell us about that precise point at which female sexuality is severed from the self. They do not tell us about what it means in the mind and the heart and the spirit, when you’ve been paid to say ‘yes’ and behave ‘yes’ and perform ‘yes’, so that you are mute – and rendered mute by the very reality of the transaction that has bought your silence – but everything non-audible that makes up who you are is silently screaming ‘NO’. They do not tell us about any of this. Now can anyone who has not experienced this please take a moment to imagine the layers of pain and shame and inner-torment this situation causes, when it has been lived over and over and over again, for months, years, decades in some cases.

http://survivorsconnect.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/where-were-all-the-happy-hookers-when-i-was-on-the-game/
_______________________________

my position on this is really gray. like with porn. choices. self will. rights. i believe in all this. just like with drugs, overeating, lack of exercise, cheating, or any other thing that we may choose that may be unhealthy. there is the right to make these choices. for me, it is not indicative of all that a person is. just a choice. but, i like to keep it honest, anyway.

someone sent this to me and i feel her voice should be heard, also.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Where were all the Happy-Hookers when I was on The Game? (Original post)
seabeyond Apr 2012 OP
Little Star Apr 2012 #1
seabeyond Apr 2012 #2
MadrasT Apr 2012 #3
Violet_Crumble Apr 2012 #4
seabeyond Apr 2012 #5
HoosierCowboy Nov 2012 #6
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #10
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #7
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #8
seabeyond Nov 2012 #9
caseymoz Nov 2012 #11
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #12
MadrasT Nov 2012 #13
redqueen Nov 2012 #14
caseymoz Nov 2012 #15
redqueen Nov 2012 #19
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #24
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #18
redqueen Nov 2012 #20
seabeyond Nov 2012 #21
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #23
caseymoz Nov 2012 #16
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #17
seabeyond Nov 2012 #22

Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:14 AM

1. To me there are different venues used in prostitution..

for instance Nevada's legalized prostitution in the form of regulated brothels or what I call pimped prostitution. These venues also have to be taken into consideration imho.

I can see why those in Nevada's legalized prostitution may be happy while those in pimped prostitution may be doing it to feed a drug habit, etc.

I think it's a complex subject.

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Response to Little Star (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 20, 2012, 08:04 AM

2. i have been wanting to get back to this post.

we find different info depending on the agenda. i have found. but what i hear, is regardless of how we structure, the criminal element remains and is harmful. it is all about dominance and control, and with that, on the human spirit, i dont see universally, that there is a "right" way to abuse another.

that being said, the point of this Op is not the structure of making it the safest we can for a woman to be used. it is what it does to the spirit of the person. my favorite part of life is action/reaction with who we are and what it manifests. the ripple out effect. how choices effect us and whether or not we can do something of lower vibration in a manner where it is not hurtful to who we are. whether it be strippin or prostituting, i think when one is a part of an environment where they have to shield themselves from vulnerabilities and hurt and control, dominance and abuse, it effects who we are.

we have reasons to say we are happy with what we do when all the while inside of us knows better. but we are protecting self so we can continue with the choices we make.

i have no need or reason to judge a person making these choices, but i also think it is so harmful to mainstream and normalize this to such an extent that we say it is no different than working in mcdonalds.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 20, 2012, 08:18 AM

3. Thank you

People lose sight of how what they do affects other people. Sometimes self-empowerment turns into "all about me, fuck the big picture."

Love what you wrote, seabeyond. It reflects how I feel and I couldn't have said it nearly so well.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 20, 2012, 08:43 AM

4. Prostitution is legal where I live...

It has been for a long time, and it hasn't been harmful to our society. We're a pretty tough bunch, coz we also manage to survive with a thriving x-rated porn industry, possession of weed being decriminalised, and other things that just aren't allowed in some other states...


http://www.scarletalliance.org.au/laws/act/

While yr not going to see brothels appearing at career days and urging school kids to consider working in a brothel as a career, sex workers have all the same protections as any other worker does. The brothels are highly regulated and aren't allowed to operate in residential areas. I've never seen prostitutes like the ones I've seen in the US on episodes of cops, and it's not something that's ever going to just vanish totally, so I think the way it is here is far, far preferable to what I've seen in parts of the US...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 20, 2012, 09:33 AM

5. Legal Prostitution in Australia a "Failure"

Ten years ago, Australia made a risky policy move it thought would help protect women and children: it legalized prostitution. Today, only 10% of the prostitution industry operates in Australia's legal brothels. The other 90% takes place in underground, illegal sex markets thick with forced prostitution and human trafficking victims. The University of Queensland Working Group on Human Trafficking recently released a report stating that the prostitution laws in Australia had failed. Since 1999, women in Australia have had the option of working legally in licensed brothels or on their own. The hope was that women with an entrepreneurial spirit and a passion for commercial sex would set up their own businesses, and make everything safe, legal, and regulated. That hasn't happened.

What has happened, instead, is entrepreneurial pimps have lured and trafficked Asian women to Australia and set up illegal brothels with lower prices. Trafficking is "booming" in Queensland, and there are few laws to help protect women who are lured or coerced into prostitution against their will. And as legal brothels try and compete with the trafficking boom, they cut costs, which often involves cutting freedom and benefits for women. Even in the legal, liscenced brothels of Queensland, women have reported being coerced into working under unfair conditions or against their will.

Australian advocates and policy-makers are offering a number of solutions to this problem, everything from increasing the police force looking for illegal brothels to making the legal brothel's fees lower to adding new legal protections for immigrant women in the commercial sex industry. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that legal prostitution in Australia isn't working to protect women. But how should it be fixed?

Here's my vote: Legal prostitution in Australia isn't working to protect women because legal prostitution doesn't work to protect women. It will always be cheaper to set up an illegal brothel full of slave labor than to pay fees and salaries and health care to licensed workers. As long as there are men demanding cheap commercial sex, there will be traffickers willing to supply it. And where there is a legal market, there will be more men demanding sex, though not always at legal market prices.

http://news.change.org/stories/legal-prostitution-in-australia-a-failure

__________________________

not only does the demand increase, but with it being legal, it makes it harder for police to go after the hidden crime. BUT... that is an arguable issue and not really what the OP is talking about.

it is not so much the legalization or not. it isnt at all about that. it is about what prostitution does to a person. i leave the world to figure out how to deal with the issue. from my perspective, all around, it is an unhealthy use and abuse of another human being.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 03:17 PM

6. This could be you


This Could be You
Brandi tells her story


Who is Brandi?
A 38 year old house wife from New Jersey making adult movies in the Los Angles film industry.

How did she get here?
Brandis' career in the adult film industry was cut short. One actor in the industry was diagnosed with syphilis and all filming stopped., just as Brandi was starting her career as an adult actress, it ended.

Brandi was mistreated by her husband and lied to by her agent. With no money to get home, and no means of transportation, Brandi decided to become a legal prostitute at the Kit Kat Guest Ranch in Mound House, Nevada.

After working profitably at the Kit Kat for several months, Brandi has enough money to buy a car. After making the first payment, the brothel is bought by another owner and Brandi is out of a job.

After working as an independent escort in South Lake Tahoe, Brandi tries to go to Las Vegas but her used car has mechanical trouble and she winds up at the auto dealership in Carson City where she bought the vehicle.

Brandi can't go anywhere, she is staying at the motel across the street from the auto dealership. She has been there for four days when our video begins.

Brandi is beginning to run out of options and money, Hurricane Sandy has just destroyed her condo in New Jersey all she has is her dog Brownie and a few possessions.

This is an honest to God story happening right now.















































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Response to HoosierCowboy (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 5, 2012, 12:53 AM

10. I'm not sure how that's an argument against legalised prostitution...

'After working profitably at the Kit Kat for several months, Brandi has enough money to buy a car. After making the first payment, the brothel is bought by another owner and Brandi is out of a job.

After working as an independent escort in South Lake Tahoe, Brandi tries to go to Las Vegas but her used car has mechanical trouble and she winds up at the auto dealership in Carson City where she bought the vehicle.'

Because businesses being bought and new owners changing employees is something that never happens with other jobs? Also, I'm not seeing how legalised prostitution can be blamed for her having car troubles.

I've got a sister in law working in the adult industry where I live and I don't like nor understand the stigma that gets attached to sex work. What I really don't understand is how Americans who live in places where prostitution is illegal and where there are women out on the streets can be opposed to legalised prostitution when what happens in much of the US is really really exploiting women who are vunerable...

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 05:59 PM

7. When men and women

Prostitute themselves equally, I'll rethink the issue. Right now , I want to see it decriminalized. Severe penalties for abuse of sex workers, free medical and education for those who want an out. In other words, I want sex workers protected. No matter how powerful you think you are in the game, you're still prey for predators. Period.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 08:16 PM

8. I posted that while at a musical

(It was at intermission, give me a break here ok?)Legalized prostitution is problematic everywhere, and don't get me started about the connection with human trafficking.

I'll post some links later but I am sick and tired of prostitutes going to jail for it. Let the goddam Johns and pimps go to jail.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 09:08 PM

9. i hesitated when first reading your post, but got it with the decriminalization.

thanks for the clarification.

i feel about the same as you.

hope you enjoyed the musical. and what a hoot we all are posting while at musicals or say.... cross country meets, lol

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Response to seabeyond (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:07 PM

11. It's not difficult to find those happy hookers.


She answered her own question, did she know? They're on the Internet and have blogs now.

One thing I know about the sex industry, if you don't like it when you go in, that is to say you think it's wrong, or it nauseates you, or you're disgusted with the customers on principle, or whatever bugs you about it, you are going to hate it. What bothers you about it will never stop. And then you'll be inclined to be bothered by other things about it.

I'm not saying it's all in your attitude, because this is something that can't be willfully changed or affected. It has to do with the core emotions. Many people who go into the sex industry can't tolerate it, but go in anyway.

As for why she never ran into any others who loved the business, I believe the expression is, "Bird's of a feather . . ." Really, why would she be drawn, for a moment, to anyone who showed any sunniness about it? Wouldn't they disgust her? If she's in misery, her unconscious need is going to be to find other people who understand her misery the most.

If anybody is happy in the industry, it's because they started out thinking impersonal sex is marvelous: that sex is how adults play. Or at least it doesn't bother them, at all. If there's nothing about it that bothers them, well, why wouldn't they make a living from it? Not that things can never go badly for them, or they never end up alienated, but those are the ones who stay in industry partially because they like it. Those are the Nina Hartleys.


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Response to caseymoz (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:50 PM

12. Depends on which end of the social spectrum you're playing on

Or how you play. If someone is happy in the sex industry good for them, but there is always, always someone suffering who lost the game. There's always the threat of violence. Painting the sex industry as safe and sane doesn't cut it, it's simply not true. That doesn't mean it couldn't be true.

Good friend of mine used to watch her mom and her Moms friends, "beautiful whores" is the term she used, describing physical attractiveness. "Ballsy chicks" she says. She watched them hit that downward spiral, end up in prison or dead.

I know women in prison, in jail I know women who dance, I know women who do personals. I know women who simply go to sex clubs to get an itch scratched. There is Always a story. And the story is always more than how much you like impersonal sex.


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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:44 AM

13. Been there, done that.

There is *always* a story, and all too often it doesn't have a happy ending.

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Response to MadrasT (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:43 AM

14. VERY few people seem to care about any story that doesn't match the happy hooker narrative.

People will even accuse anyone who voices an alternate view of 'infantilizing' these happy hookers, of slandering their mental health, and other such over-the-top, laughably ridiculous claims. All to shut them up, and ensure any other view is completely shut out of any discussion. All to steer such conversations in the direction they'd prefer it went.

Even Ms. magazine had a story carrying water for the multi-billion dollar sex industry after France's new Minister for Women's Rights, Najat Vallaud-Belkacem, decided to implement the Nordic model in order to help protect the civil rights of those whose stories don't match up with that preferred narrative.

So yeah, the pro-sex-industry lobby and those whose personal views align with it do their best to make sure those happy hookers are vastly over-represented in discussions of these issues.


And on edit, the same thing applies for porn 'stars'. If your story isn't a happy one and you didn't love it, hardly anybody wants to hear it. You can say it, you can write about it... but most people simply won't listen. They'll still talk about you... post pictures of you... make jokes about you. But remember your pain? Consider your turmoil? Stop and think of the implications of any critical statements you've made? Not many people are the slightest bit interested.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:46 AM

15. The myth of the myth of the Happy Hooker.

The happy hooker over-representation you're giving is a straw man. There is nobody who says the industry is wonderful. Nobody. There may be some who say their experience has been, on the balance, positive. Perhaps through luck. There may be some who say that instilling a more positive attitude in society will improve the conditions of other sex workers, (Nina Hartley, Annie Sprinkle, et al) and they work toward this. But there is absolutely nobody who says satisfaction in the industry is common, and if anything, the drive to legalize it is an effort to relieve the troubles sex workers experience, not one to make happy hookers happier.

There is nobody in the industry who claims sex workers are not mistreated, though the degree of mistreatment is in dispute. This is simply because some numbers and claims are immediately implausible to people who have worked in the industry, those who are acquainted with people in it, and sometimes even anybody who looks out their door. Such as the claim that there are 200,000 to a half-million underage prostitutes working in the US. That statistic has been debunked. I don't know if it's being used anymore, but where and why did people come up with it to begin with? It reveals an inclination to lie.

That's why many don't listen, why you can't seem to get them interested. Plus, they're a little skeptical that the best interests of the sex workers are what's at the heart of it. Especially when so much vitriol (that sounds suspiciously like slut shaming) is spewed at people who say their experience has been positive. Right now, everyone claims they want to help sex workers. However, the repented, contrite sex workers are the only ones antis are friendly to. This doesn't bode well for people who are still in the industry, happy ones or not.

The actual difference is one side wants to abolish the sex industry, while the other side thinks abolishing it is impractical, costly and actually makes the sex workers lives more miserable.

Abolishing it is Plan A that people in the West have been implementing without success for the last 300 years. During that time, the plan has fallen short, aggravated abuses, marginalized sex workers, and deprived them of any legal framework that could protect them. Gimmicky ways of getting it abolished, such as the Nordic Model, ignore several facts, not least of which is commercial sex will still be extremely difficult to catch.

Legalizing or decriminalizing is the other side, positing that most problems in the industry or troubles that gravitate toward it can be relieved within a tolerant legal framework, and more cheaply. It doesn't mean the industry is peachy, or that it's being approved of. And it's based on this observation: outlaws almost always act worse.

For the Nordic Model, it has flaws that nobody has acknowledged, and they come down to this: prostitutes have sex drives, too. Money is a conscious motivation. The sex drive, though, is primal and also acts beneath consciousness. In other words, it's about the sex, too, not equally in the transaction, but it's there. The net results? The prostitutes themselves are going to find ways of protecting their clients, and since the prostitutes will always be presumed the innocent party, they'll be proactive in how they do it. The only choice there is to arrest them for the measures they'll take, probably mostly obstruction of justice, which is a felony, and again, you'll end up putting them in jail as much as their clientele. As for pimps, prostitutes will continue to operate without them.

Why? Because as long as people have constant sex drives and money, you're going to have commercial sex, and arguably, the money might not be necessary either. You don't need a patriarchy for that. Though the addition of one would make it worse.

There are ways you can stop it. Saudi Arabia, for instance, is apparently very successful at doing it. That's an example of the measures you'll have to take.



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Response to caseymoz (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:00 AM

19. Funny how when an organization with a significant financial stake in a hugely profitable industry

does "research" like the Village Voice did... say, in the oil industry... liberals are able to discern the bias. but somehow, this rational analysis doesn't apply when the hugely profitable industry in question is the sex industry though. Oh, no. Then these stakeholders are suddenly, magically, COMPLETELY impartial and trustworthy!

What a sad state of affairs.

The Nordic model isn't a "gimmick", its woking. It has been working, which is why it is spreading from country to country, and why it will continue to do so.

Thanks for sharing, I'm done discussing this issue with you.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:13 PM

24. Are you fucking kidding me?

Saudi? You've just established what you don't know about. Good show old boy. Or girl, whatever

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Response to redqueen (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:17 AM

18. That pisses me off

Last edited Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Every porn worker is a 'star' Jesus what bullshit.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:06 AM

20. So much about the liberal blind spots on this issue pisses me off. The average age of entry into

prostitution is fucking twelve.

12.

But shut up! Those people are lying! LA LA LA LA LA!

Anything... ANYTHING but think about anything negative about the absolute goodness and awesomeness of sex for sale. God fucking forbid anyone dare to limit men's access to that.

Fucking bullshit.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:15 AM

21. well documented. well known. 12. 12 is the age most are entering, or there in. in our face 12.

and people all pretend otherwise. those that say there are happy and content, and really, just horney. fuckin for real? fuckin for real???

12.

when a 12, 13, 14, 15 yr old is enterting prositution, there are issues.

that simple.

as adults they may have found ways to reconcile, that it is accepted and less painful, able to hide from the pain.

but, 12.

btw... men, using these 12 yr olds. TWELVE should have a mom and a dad dealing with life altering issues, not the child.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:10 PM

23. But but but

I looked up 'straw man' on Wikipedia and I can use it in a sentence!

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:11 AM

16. Which raises the question:


Was it themselves or other people who usually sent their lives downward? Someone had to put them in prison. It would be too snarky for me to point out that everyone ends up dead, without asking how young and how much suffering? And how often do you notice it on a person who's not in the sex industry?

I didn't say the entire story was how much you like impersonal sex. I said that's often what gets them involved, and they're often involved that way before their sex becomes commercial. That is was to make the point that if a person doesn't start out there, they are going everything about the sex industry.

If you want the whole story, you need to read a book not post of a couple paragraphs.

I never "painted" the industry as safe and sane; so, were you talking about me or somebody else having done this?

And, yes, I've known all the sex workers you've described, too. Yet I've reached different conclusion. Why do you think that is? How can I know everything you know and reach a different conclusion?

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:13 AM

17. Truth to tell

You'd need to read a number of books an conduct a number of interviews, observe a number of situations, after gaining the confidence of women who are far too often degraded or looked upon. Not to mention tossed in jail for providing the demands of men. Many women in the life or after leaving don't want to talk about it. One of the reasons it's difficult to study sex work is the elusiveness of the workers themselves. Yes there are very vocal pro-sex workers and a few very strong movements to try to unionize or otherwise protect the sex worker, but not in enough numbers to represent the workers themselves.

Would to be snarky of me to point out that I doubt you've done any of these things?

As far as 'Happy Hooker' being a 'straw an argument, that is the title of the thread and the original article, which contains snark of its own. Explain please.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:25 AM

22. i guess it would depend if one chooses to just looka t the shallow surface or actually spend time to

understand.

the pretty woman scenario is most sought after, give the warmest feeling, and allows for no guilt wrapping it in a pretty bow, so no one has to see feel think about the dirty and ugly.

every woman i have known that has participated in the sex industry has started about being fine, having a shield that protects, being the user, and meh... just a job.

every one of the women that are then unconditionally loved and accepted, lower their shields and tell their true story over time shows me exactly how fucked up they and their lives have become and the reasons making the choice in the fields that they did.

your post is such a shallow dismissal of women, as you truly believe you are so fuckin insightful and knowledgeable.

menz gotta believe the woman is just truly really horney and the only way to satisfy the lust is get a pimp that beats and controls her, does 20 and more bjs a night on strange, dirty, unkempt, smelly, less than attractive men.

oh yum. sounds like a blast.

average age enterting prostiution is 12. 75-92% (depending on study) of prostitutes were victims of rape as a child.

please, lecture me, on it just being about some really horney women.

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